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Old 01-11-2014, 06:07 AM   #29
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i think mh mag could have written the article much better
they state that lp furnaces are so in-efficient even though they are stated to meet the 80% efficiency.

there reasoning was the heat ejected by the exhaust...that cracked me up as the fire has to heat up the plenum and the waste or exhaust has to go somewhere...like maybe out the tailpipe

First, RV propane furnaces are NOT stated or required to meet the Federal minimum 80% efficiency rating for home gas furnaces. They are not even close.

Second, yes the heat going out the exhaust is exactly where the waste (loss of heat below 100% efficient) is going. This is true for home heating furnaces as well. All furnaces above 80% efficient are condensing type which remove more heat from the exhaust gases to the point the water drops out and thus the need for the drain piping. RV furnaces do not do this and in fact exhaust spent gases much hotter than typical 80% efficient home furnaces. Thus the additional loss. The point of the statement was that a 24,000 BTU propane furnace only puts about 15,000 BTU of heat INTO the heated space. The electric CH system provides about the same.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:15 AM   #30
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Thanks for the understanding, your gage may be alright but their wiring instructions may not by looking at your pictures.
I tried to get a good picture of their wiring instructions from their web site but they were not clear or large enough for me to see.
If you can post a picture of them I can add to your instructions when we get this straighten out.
Your Newmar does not need a fire from this outfit like the other one.

The 50A version of the CH system does not use a neutral. Only requires 2 conductor plus ground for the feed. 2C plus G roamex cable is almost always color coded black, white and bare copper. It is common to use the black and white wires on the two poles of the 240VAC breaker and tie the bare copper to the ground bus. Most older home dryers, many garage air compressors and other appliances that use 240V, 3 prong outlets (no neutral) are wired this way as are many commercial copiers, exercise equipment etc.

Cable with 2C plus ground with black, red and bare copper color coding is a rare bird and seldom stocked.
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Old 01-11-2014, 12:20 PM   #31
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Here's another tidbit from the Cheapheat site:

"IT IS UNDERSTOOD BY THE CONSUMER THAT THE CHEAPHEAT™ SYSTEM MUST BE INSTALLED BY A QUALIFIED RV SERVICE TECHNICIAN AND THAT RV COMFORT SYSTEMS ACCEPTS NO LIABILITY FOR SYSTEM OPERATION OR INSTALLATION WHEN SYSTEM IS NOT INSTALLED BY QUALIFIED RV SERVICE TECHNICIAN."

Cheapheat says "MUST", not "SHOULD". So here we have someone who installs the units himself and also advocates that others do the same. Hmmm, perhaps it possibly has something to do with legal reasons and product liability?

No liability if the consumer does not get it installed by a qualified RV service tech?? That's doesn't sound good to me. What are az bound's qualifications? So all the people he's done it free for won't be covered by the manufacturer?

What if someone with this system had it installed by a non-qualified RV tech. and there was a fire? What would an insurance company or a lawyer do? What would happen to the person saying it's just fine for any old person to install it himself?

A few of the things that can be taken away from this thread are:

1. if you have just a 30 amp service, the 30 amp heater only puts out a small fraction of what the LP furnace will.

2. if you have the DH-50, when you plug it into a 30 amp pedestal, it shuts off (and so it should to prevent overloading). (A lot of cgs only have 30 amps available.)

3. you have to install it yourself or get someone to install it for free to make it appear less expensive than it is.

4. you have to buy an el-cheapo 50 amp power cord ($117) to reduce overall cost. Does it have a connector on the end, does it have substandard insulation jacket that gets stiff in cold weather, does it have a warranty, is that a wholesale or retail price? Who with an expensive RV wants to have to install a cheapo power cord? Why wouldn't a link be posted?

5. if your furnace is on the curb side, you can install the control panel anywhere so that the shore power connection is on the correct side. But wait... You still have to run power wiring from the furnace to the control panel. That will not be free.

The Cheapheat website is woefull lacking in technical information. Could it be that they don't want to disclose all facts because that might turn people off? Or maybe it's because they don't want anyone who isn't a qualified RV tech. doing the work.?

I think what should be done is go to a few larger, reputable and well-recognized RV shops and get quotes for all labor and material to install a DH-50 heater along with all taxes, delivery charges, incidentals, markups, etc. Then post the results. I guarantee it won't be anywhere near $700 and I guarantee nobody would do this because it would prove all of the actual work that is required. I stand by my assertion that the total cost of having a shop do the work is in the order of $2,000.

If anyone fails to do their due diligence and wants to buy snake oil, that's their choice. It's clear some don't want to hear the full truth about a product... I'm all for innovative products that fill a need, do what they claim to do, are easy to install and are cost effective. This isn't one of them.
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:34 PM   #32
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I would think that anyone wanting questions answered would use the links, phone and FAX numbers provided to get answers directly from RV Comfort Systems. Larry McGaugh is the owner.
My qualifications should only be of interest to those I have helped to install the system, of which you are not one. Larry could also answer that question for you.

Its pretty obvious now you are trolling.
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Old 01-11-2014, 08:05 PM   #33
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For those interested; Rv Comfort Systems started selling kits to the public about 6 months ago for DIY installation.
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Old 01-11-2014, 09:13 PM   #34
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I think this is very interesting as propane prices are rising sharply and for that one of many reasons is a good idea to have a backup if nothing else. As for the all negative poster, you made your point and now if you have nothing positive to say then say nothing. I would be listening to a gentleman that uses the product has installed the product not once but many times before I would listen to someone who knows nothing of it from no experience with the product!

Just saying!
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:46 AM   #35
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For those interested; Rv Comfort Systems started selling kits to the public about 6 months ago for DIY installation.

I just checked the RV Comfort site. I cannot find the DIY kit. I did find this statement though, where they say they will ask you if you are qualified to make the install when purchasing online.


This product should only be installed by a certified RV service facility. Most qualified service facilities can install this system in 5 to 8 hours, resulting in an average installed price (including any additional parts and labor) of $1,200 to $1,500 depending on labor rates and the existing duct system. Online purchasers will be asked to certify that they are qualified to service RV's and work on residential-style 120/240 VAC high-voltage equipment.
T

Please show me the DIY information
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:00 AM   #36
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I just checked the RV Comfort site. I cannot find the DIY kit. I did find this statement though, where they say they will ask you if you are qualified to make the install when purchasing online. This product should only be installed by a certified RV service facility. Most qualified service facilities can install this system in 5 to 8 hours, resulting in an average installed price (including any additional parts and labor) of $1,200 to $1,500 depending on labor rates and the existing duct system. Online purchasers will be asked to certify that they are qualified to service RV's and work on residential-style 120/240 VAC high-voltage equipment. T Please show me the DIY information
Seriously! You don't need a RV tech to run wire and make connections to the tune of $800 if you are handy hence the term DIY. Most can and have run wire for dryers, ranges, welders and entire houses at some point in their life. If you can do that you can do this and if want to be sure of your work have it inspected and approved!
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:10 AM   #37
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Their VIDEO shows more to system than just a piece of romx cabling, if a heating grid was just used with switch that is not the Cheap Heat system.

This VIDEO also shows the safty features built into the system and the control box to control the heating element from exceeding its limits.

In their warranty there is no information about a DIY installation.

If your a DIY you need to follow the kits instructions and not redesign the system to your ideas, to protect yourselves and your RV.
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:30 AM   #38
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Their VIDEO shows more to system than just a piece of romx cabling, if a heating grid was just used with switch that is not the Cheap Heat system. This VIDEO also shows the safty features built into the system and the control box to control the heating element from exceeding its limits. If your a DIY you need to follow the kits instructions and not redesign the system to your ideas, to protect yourselves and your RV.
My point is, if you are a handy person there is no reason to get an RV tech to install it just have your work inspected. And yes, follow the proper instructions!
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:37 AM   #39
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My point is, if you are a handy person there is no reason to get an RV tech to install it just have your work inspected. And yes, follow the proper instructions!

I think we both agree and the highlighted part is the important part of it.
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:48 AM   #40
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Seriously! You don't need a RV tech to run wire and make connections to the tune of $800 if you are handy hence the term DIY. Most can and have run wire for dryers, ranges, welders and entire houses at some point in their life. If you can do that you can do this and if want to be sure of your work have it inspected and approved!

Note: I did not say you needed a RV tech I am just reporting what the website said.
Someone made the comment there is a DIY kit available I could not find it But what I did find was the web site said they are going to ask you if you are qualified.
Please read what is posted
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:15 AM   #41
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Press release, june 2012: RV Comfort Systems announced that its patented Cheap Heat system is now available to the public through their website.
Contact Larry McGaugh to varify; 425-480-3140
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Old 01-12-2014, 08:48 AM   #42
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Note: I did not say you needed a RV tech I am just reporting what the website said. Someone made the comment there is a DIY kit available I could not find it But what I did find was the web site said they are going to ask you if you are qualified. Please read what is posted
I didn't say you said a RV tech was needed, I was responding to what you posted the site said.
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