Class A: Diesel or Gas?

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by marjoa

Very good reply. I especially liked this part, "Diesels can have very high unscheduled costs".

Could you please give us a list of some common or found often "very high unscheduled costs" and what kinda of money we're talking about?

2007 ISX 650 DOHC, dropped valve in #6, just north of $33,000. Second time in 45,000 miles also three turbos (about $4,000 each) and two DPF's (about $3,000 each).

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Coma

One our members had his engine rebuilt because a valve failed, IIRC something on the order of $30k was required.

There are more than one of us reporting the Cummins dropped valves in ISX's in the Cummins forum here, as well as other sites outside IRV. Takes some digging to find them but they are out there.
Cummins didn't do their R&D well enough. The engine was originally designed as a million mile 400-450 HP engine, then they got in a HP/torque race with Volvo so they pushed it too far.

[CaptV1VR]

Just Purchased our first MH and went with a used DP. ISL 400 with plenty of Torque. It's quite a learning curve here, and generally happy with our Rig.

You still really need to look at the Chasis as it can be just as much ( or more) of what makes your decision.

Do NOT ignore weight and CCC (Cargo Carry Capacity) in your inspections
It should not be a quick decision
Thanks

[AKOne]

One major reason I decided to purchase a DP was the Net Carrying Capacity. The volume of storage available is important, but so is the coach's ability to carry the weight. When you learn what all those weight numbers mean and how they relate to each other, you will discover just how little you can put on-board and stay within the legal limits. If had to guess, and it is just a guess, there are many motorhomes (class A, B and Cs) including pull-behinds that are overweight. To the OP, yes there are many things to take into consideration, just do not forget about safety. All motorhome chassis have design limits, most DPs have much higher limits.

[computerguy]

Originally Posted by Coma

... What that weight allows is tile floors, solid or maybe granite counters. 100 gallons of fresh water. 120-200 gallons of fuel. Residential refrigerators, 4-8 house batteries. Air ride and so on. The amenities add up in weight, the diesel makes carrying them possible.

If you don't need or value the amenities that diesels can offer then why go to the expense? Which is why you should decide what is important to you. The late model gas MH's from Newmar are gorgeous and well constructed. There are choices for every lifestyle and budget, enjoy the search!

FWIW
My gas Bounder has 100 gallons of fresh water, residential refer, 4 house batteries, solid surface countertops throughout.

[Dennis Dean]

interesting, 33 post and not a single reply from the OP?

New vs OLD threads abound
Gas vs Diesel Threads abound

Pick your budget/limit ---- Find the coaches (Gas or Diesel) that fit in it and then which one you like best for your needs and feel is a reputable manufacturer, then buy it and enjoy.....
simplified but the basic buyers choice.

[waternut]

The newer gas coaches have come a long way less maintenance greater reliability and fuel mileage, Most people are never going to wear one out if they perform the required maintenance on them. Up front cost are less but so is the resale. Diesels will tow more, quieter up front, have diesel generators and the side radiators make them more accessible for belts, alternators, A/C compressor for maintenance. We went with a well used higher mileage diesel that had been taken very good care of, so far so good. Yes diesels are more expensive to maintain and repair but don't think that gas are cheap, replacing an engine on a gasser could cost over 100 hours labor alone if it failed. If you are buying new then budget could/ will be a huge factor.
Both will do the job, both require maintenance.

[marjoa]

Originally Posted by Dennis Dean

interesting, 33 post and not a single reply from the OP?

New vs OLD threads abound
Gas vs Diesel Threads abound

Pick your budget/limit ---- Find the coaches (Gas or Diesel) that fit in it and then which one you like best for your needs and feel is a reputable manufacturer, then buy it and enjoy.....
simplified but the basic buyers choice.

Originally Posted by Dennis Dean

interesting, 33 post and not a single reply from the OP?

New vs OLD threads abound
Gas vs Diesel Threads abound

Pick your budget/limit ---- Find the coaches (Gas or Diesel) that fit in it and then which one you like best for your needs and feel is a reputable manufacturer, then buy it and enjoy.....
simplified but the basic buyers choice.

Here I am. I just didn't want to respond to quickly and possibly steer the conversation off course.
My wife & I have been diligently reading & researching what exactly which way we want to go purchasing a MH. So our response here to these posts is filled with thanks but to others like us that are thinking the same thing we are, I'll sum up where we are based on what we've learned.
I'm 64yrs. old & my wife is 10 yrs younger. Yeah I know "jail bait". We currently own a 23' TT (and love it) but we want to do some traveling now and possibly go FT in about 2 years. I own a graphic design company and am also a professional photographer and will need to run my business from the MH when we're out traveling now & in the future. BTW...my accountant has already told us that this motorhome & all it's expenses can be a total 100% write off. So, for the 1st couple of years we plan to take short 1 week trips, work out the bugs, get reliable internet, and all the other things e'll need to operate, and since my wife works for the school district we will take the entire summer off to travel like up to Maine and the like. BUT...we have gone back and forth so many times about this question Gas vs Diesel our heads are numb. And we totally understand the differences of ride, weight you can carry and so on. My wife has always relied on me to be able to fix just about anything. I do have the know how, tools & experience in many areas, (electrical is my weak point) and it's for this reason I'm keenly aware that diesels can cost more to repair and that's why I asked the question in this post...like what & how much on things that pop up beyond regular maintenance issues. BTW...I appreciate that note about that engine valve issue, I have never read that before. But to sum up our thoughts on a diesel were:
Used Diesel:
• Can find a pretty nice used 40' or 42' for anywhere between 65K & 100K, that's less than a new gas MH. But would be kinda of a fixer upper of sorts
• Lots of room, better ride, more space to build business work area
• It fits our budget and would be perfect if in fact we go FT in a couple of years
• BUT, to get a DP in our budget it would have to be a 2002 thru 2005 or so. That puts it right right now—age wise—a used DP @ about a 12 to 14 yrs. old.
• So after we bring it up to date, remodel it some for our needs, go FT for about 10 yrs. or so, spend the money to maintain, tires etc., that means in 2027 we would have a 25 year old MH that would be basically worthless. To put that in perspective, would you look at buying a motorhome today that was built in 1990 or so?
• A DP in our budget range, there's really no floor plan that we say WOW, we really like that (except maybe an American Coach or a couple of Manaco's but those tend to be a little out of our budget
• Maintenance costs are higher, more complicated systems & sometimes specialized repairs
• And after looking at your unexpected list above I just cringe...

New Gas MH
• Will cost approx. 110K-120K, w/20% down we won't realize any up front depreciation hit because we have a 10 - 12 yr. plan therefore not selling early and taking the hit or becoming upside down. In 2027 we'll have a 10yr. old MH, that has miles on it yes, but as meticulous as I am with maintenance and up keep it will be in good shape and worth maybe 35K - 40K or so. Putting it up for sale then, people will be looking to buy a 10 yr. old coach. So more money up front for less MH, but will have some value at the end.
• We're also pretty much set on the 2017 because it's a 2nd generation now of the new 6 speed chassis and some of the early issues have been worked out
• It would be probably 35' so it would be smaller but still very adequate for 2 adults. Especially us, we get along great.
• We kinda have our eyes set on a Holiday Rambler, Vacationer XE 32a which has a floor plan that we say WOW that's perfect for us and is very practical & comfortable
• Still will take a few mod's to accommodate running my business
• Maintenance costs are less and I'll be able to do a lot more of these myself
• New gas MH's have a lot more amenities than ever before and in our opinion very useful, up-to-date technology and beautiful
• We live in Houston, TX and have a REV Group factory service center 3.5 hours away

So there you have it. I left out a lot but this pretty much sums it up in a nut shell. We both really want a DP, but after careful consideration of all the above we think a gasser is the best way to go for us.

There was one quote that one of the senior posters said here a few days ago that really helped us over the hump. He said, "if you travel a lot and camp a little get a diesel...if you travel a little and camp a lot get a gasser. I think the later is more us even if we go FT.

Thanks everyone for your input. Whew!!!! That was a mouth fill wasn't it.

[ru499]

I've seen this question so many times. After answering over the years, I've come up with a short answer that I think cuts to the chase..

The difference is, one is like riding in a school bus, the other is like riding in a Greyhound.

How much you want to spend is the decision you'll have to make.

[computerguy]

Originally Posted by ru499

I've seen this question so many times. After answering over the years, I've come up with a short answer that I think cuts to the chase..

The difference is, one is like riding in a school bus, the other is like riding in a Greyhound.

How much you want to spend is the decision you'll have to make.

Completely unfair comparison.
But
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I've owned a higher end Monaco DP and now own my Bounder.
It took a few tweaks to the Bounder but only cost about $400.
It's not exactly the same ride and handling but close enough for government work IMHO.
And I have a ton more money in the bank than I would have if I bought a DP.

We've heard from the OP and they seem like they are doing the analysis and going to make the right decision for them.
In the end that's what matters.
School bus...

[Mike and Cha]

Wasn't going to jump into this one as I have all the rest. You can't go wrong with either one, and it's really a matter of preference. The newer gas MH's are very comparable to the diesels in amenities. Our MH compared to the equivalent Diesel Ventanna with about the same amenities, was about $100,000 less out the door(that is a big difference). There has been much improvement in both the drive and engine noise of the gas MH's. Ours rides great, tracks well, and does not get pushed around by the wind or big trucks, and on the level terrain you can barely hear the engine. I have a NCC( that's how Newmar calculates it) of 5300 pounds, and can tow 5000 pounds. If I carry even close to that much stuff then I am doing something wrong. If you plan on towing anything over 5,000 pounds then having a diesel MH may be a priority for you.

I don't believe how much you drive the MH really matters as they will all get you the same places, and pretty much do the same thing once parked in a CG. I do not get fatigued driving my MH and it is fun to drive. We have driven ours on several trips now that were over 3,000 miles round trip without any issues. The big factor for me is that I like to do all my own maintenance and doing it on a gas MH is no more difficult or expensive than what you would do on a normal car. So if you have been doing your own oil changes/lubes on your cars, you will have no problem doing it on a gas MH. I don't really feel comfortable doing my own maintenance on a diesel, and I hate to leave my MH anywhere to be worked on if I can do the work myself. I keep our MH house and can do my maintenance there.

They say a diesel will last forever, which may be true for the engine block, but if you read the threads of diesel breakdowns, it seems that there are a lot of supporting parts of the engine that fail and can be quite expensive to repair. You really don't hear too much of that happening with a gas engine, nor do you really see anyone putting the kind of mileage on MH's, gas or diesel, that would come close to maxing out the engine life span.

Also we bought new because we wanted to, and could really get everything we wanted. I didn't worry about the depreciation factor as we keep our vehicles for a long time, and this MH will be no different. I think depreciation is way over exaggerated as we have seen our same year/same model being sold for a few thousand more than what we paid for ours. I have also had a serious offer for ours at the same price we paid new. If we ever did decide to buy something else, we would most likely give this one to our kids to use anyway. The bottom line is do your research, look at and drive as many as you can. You will see what others are talking about, and develop your own sense of quality and what is important to you. When you do it this way you will end up with a MH that you love, rather than one you want to trade in a few years. Good luck, and looking for one is half the fun.

[mtofell]

I'm not a class A owner.... yet. But have been all through the truck/travel trailer/5th wheel thing. Some great strides have been made with gas trucks over the last 5 years to somewhat close the gap with diesels. The same seems to be trickling into class A coaches.

If $$ was no object, of course a DP is a preferable setup. Engine in the back for less noise, greater towing performance with all that torque, air suspension, lower RPMs, aqua-hot systems, etc, etc. But there is the initial purchase cost of the DP and the ongoing maintenance and upkeep of many of the features. And the whole idea that a diesel lasts forever is taking a bit of a hit. These modern engines are super complex and expensive to work on. So, while I'd love nothing more than cruising around in a DP, the gassers are worth a look.

Modern gassers have much better transmissions, more power, better sound-proofing in the cab and lot of luxury features.

[JFXG]

Marjoa...... A couple of points you may have considered but did not mention:
1) do not be intimidated by the idea of buying an older DP. Coupled with the possibility of full time usage, these factors should lead you to shop only for coaches from builders with a well established reputation for integrity, high quality, and longevity measured in decades. Then move your target age back until it meets your price point. The simple truth is that quality lasts, and will stand up to daily use; mediocrity will do neither.
2) Size: if you're intending to live in this coach, buy something bigger than you think you need. The idea of "too big" will only last for a month or so; "too small" will last forever.
Many will tell you that floor plan is paramount. I disagree. For full timing, square footage is the key. The perfect floor plan is a worthy but vague goal. As long as the floor plan is reasonable, the breathing room of three slides instead of one will smooth over those imperfections.
3) Test drive both gas and diesel candidates at highway speeds with traffic, and hopefully on a somewhat windy day. This will show what you're dealing with.

Good Luck!


John & Diane, fulltiming since '12 02 DS40, FL, Cat, '04 Element NHSO RVM103

[Mrbrain]

Go deisel... You Won't be sorry.. Will do everything you need itto do.
Don't even think twice..