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Old 08-17-2013, 11:20 AM   #211
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Definitely will do! I hate being the guinea pig on anything new so I have a feeling I won't make any purchase commitments until the Tampa RV show in February. By then I am hoping all engineering kinks have been worked out and tested.

This past year North Trail had 7 or 8 3920's in different configurations at the show so hopefully there will be several 3921's this time.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:29 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ensiv View Post
Finally had the opportunity to see the Outlaw 37LS. I think we are changing direction and going ahead with a Newmar. I really like the bunk over the drivers area and the party deck tailgate but the loft is too small. I was hoping to at least be able to sit up on the bed and I am only 5'9".

I know this is common with all new deliveries but I am really blown away at the lack of inspection before these new rigs leave the factory. This is the second Outlaw we have seen and just a mess of problems. I have heard that all manufacturers are guilty of this with some worse than others but it still blows my mind especially with some of it being so simple to correct.
The loft was a deal killer for the DW, so we went with the Newmar for exactly the same reason. Your mileage may vary, but my 3920 had only 2 initial defects. (Missing O ring in the hydraulic setup caught and fixed before delivery by the dealer, and loose glass fixture in the bathroom caught by me during the delivery inspection.) Pretty good initial quality, but we had to replace the engine after 4k miles. THAT was Ford's fault, would have happened no matter what was sitting on top of it.

Not too much else happened during the Newmar warranty period, but since then we have had to replace the two rear HWH jacks as they weren't retracting fully without a little "help" from a car jack.
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:47 PM   #213
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Didn't have any idea these were on the market. We have a 41' KZ fiver toy hauler we pull with an HDT (and Smart car)and we were just getting ready to sell the whole set up when we come off the road in a few weeks. We were going to go with a DP and trailer, but now, I think we may have to take a look at some of these. Thanks for posting the info!
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:14 PM   #214
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Didn't have any idea these were on the market. We have a 41' KZ fiver toy hauler we pull with an HDT (and Smart car)and we were just getting ready to sell the whole set up when we come off the road in a few weeks. We were going to go with a DP and trailer, but now, I think we may have to take a look at some of these. Thanks for posting the info!
Rick,
Going from a HDT RV to a Newmar 3920/3921 or Outlaw 37LS/37MD would be like going from a Diesel duelly pick-up to a Ranger Pick-up to tow a travel trailer.

Both current new Class A Toyhauler brands use the Ford F53 (26,000lb GVWR) chassis...there is currently no Diesel chassis available.

Don't hear me saying it's a bad idea, but it is a whole different world. If you can accept the difference under the hood, you might enjoy that these RVs are VERY easy to operate, they are very affordable, and maint. is just like a big car.

There is the Newmar AllStar series (discontinued) on Spartan mid-engine Diesel chassis. They are rare and are holding their value from my searches...

Or, you could lengthen the frame on your tractor and add a toyhauler box on back

Best luck
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Old 08-26-2013, 07:01 AM   #215
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I've never driven a class A anything as of yet. We've owned class C RV's, diesel pick up trucks and the HDT, but no class A's. Torque is going to be paramount as we plan on trailering a Jeep as well as a motorcycle and all kinds of other stuff we have along with us now. Our current toy hauler is a nice unit, but the overall size of the truck and trailer is 64 feet. That becomes an issue for many parks and some of the one and a half lane roads leading to the parks. The plan was to fine a gently used DP where we live in Florida, since they are plentiful there and buy a 25' enclosed trailer. Now, I'm not too sure, because looking at the sites you posted opened a whole new level of ideas we had not considered. I plan on doing a lot of research and hopefully find a way to make an educated decision that I won't regret later.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:43 AM   #216
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The Outlaw and the Newmar are on 2 different chassis. The outlaw is on the Ford 24000 GVWR chassis and the Newmar is on the Ford 26000 GVWR chassis.
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Old 08-26-2013, 11:08 AM   #217
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The Outlaw and the Newmar are on 2 different chassis. The outlaw is on the Ford 24000 GVWR chassis and the Newmar is on the Ford 26000 GVWR chassis.
Thank you for pointing this difference out. They do have different GVWR (my mistake in the previous post). I have never looked closely at these numbers

While rated at different GVWR's, both brands ride on virtually identical chassis...the Ford F53 series with 30,000 GCWR: http://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/strippedchassis/trim/f53classamotorhome//viewall/

~6.8L EFI Triton V10 engine
~5 speed Torqshift Transmission
~50,000lb tensile strength frame rails

The difference is in how the chassis' are ordered:
~For the 24,000lb GVWR, Thor orders the optional "Axle (rear) - Dana S130, 15,000 lbs. 5.38 ratio" and 15,000lb rear spring pack.
~For the 26,000lb GVWR, Newmar orders the optional "Axle (rear) - Dana/Spicer 17060S, 17,500 lbs. 6.17 ratio" and 17,500lb rear spring pack.

The numbers that beg attention after this are the unloaded vehicle weight (UVW), Net or Combined Carrying Capacity (NCC/CCC) and towable allowance.

Newmar's published numbers for the 3920 are 20,730 UVW / 5,270 NCC.
The 3921 are 21,650 UVW / 4,350 NCC.
Towable allowance is not listed, but would be at least 4,000lb (GCWR minus GVWR):
Canyon Star Specifications | Newmar

My legacy 3611 (almost identical to the 37LS) is on a W24 with 18,360 UVW/ 5,640 CCC and the towable allowance of 6,000 is limited by the Class III hitch receiver. The higher capacity numbers are possible thanks to a lighter unloaded weight RV.

I don't have the published numbers for the Thor 37LS and 37MD...anyone?
2014 Outlaw Garage Motorhomes: Class A Toy Hauler RV by Thor Motor Coach

Safe travels to all
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:53 PM   #218
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I happen to know of a wonderful, **RARE**, Diesel Outlaw for sale. Check out the ad in this IRV2 website. :

Diesel Damon Outlaw 2010 mdl 3808 Scorpion Package - RV & Motorhome Classifieds

Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:53 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick.rutel View Post
I've never driven a class A anything as of yet. We've owned class C RV's, diesel pick up trucks and the HDT, but no class A's. Torque is going to be paramount as we plan on trailering a Jeep as well as a motorcycle and all kinds of other stuff we have along with us now. Our current toy hauler is a nice unit, but the overall size of the truck and trailer is 64 feet. That becomes an issue for many parks and some of the one and a half lane roads leading to the parks. The plan was to fine a gently used DP where we live in Florida, since they are plentiful there and buy a 25' enclosed trailer. Now, I'm not too sure, because looking at the sites you posted opened a whole new level of ideas we had not considered. I plan on doing a lot of research and hopefully find a way to make an educated decision that I won't regret later.
Maybe you would be happier with one of THESE
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:17 AM   #220
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Ok guys, since I'm learning all this, it seems to me that the Diesel Outlaw has a GVWR of 27K and GCWR of 30K. The garage can hold 2500 lbs so that leaves 500 lbs for towing? Am I understanding the weight ratings correctly? We need a home that can hold 1000 lbs of motorcycles and still pull a 4850 lb jeep.
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:10 AM   #221
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Ok guys, since I'm learning all this, it seems to me that the Diesel Outlaw has a GVWR of 27K and GCWR of 30K. The garage can hold 2500 lbs so that leaves 500 lbs for towing? Am I understanding the weight ratings correctly? We need a home that can hold 1000 lbs of motorcycles and still pull a 4850 lb jeep.
Your calculations assume you are at the GVWR limit. My diesel Outlaw with a Smart Car (1808 lbs) in the garage and full tanks weighed 25,760 lbs. I could have pulled a 4000 lb toad and not hit the GCWR.

Also, is the 4850 lbs the GVWR or curb weight? That may change your calcs too.
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Old 08-27-2013, 12:35 PM   #222
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Ok guys, since I'm learning all this, it seems to me that the Diesel Outlaw has a GVWR of 27K and GCWR of 30K. The garage can hold 2500 lbs so that leaves 500 lbs for towing? Am I understanding the weight ratings correctly? We need a home that can hold 1000 lbs of motorcycles and still pull a 4850 lb jeep.
I think you might have the terms confused just a bit...
The GVWR is the weight allowed to be riding on the RV's tires - not including any towed load.
The GCWR is a total allowed mass of everything being pulled by the RV's engine (the RV, plus load, plus toad).

So, the Outlaw with the Freightliner chassis can carry it's own Unloaded Vehicle Weight (UVW) plus the Combined Carrying Capacity (CCC) totaling 27,000lb...then - if fully loaded to GVWR - can tow an additional 3000lb trailer.

My Outlaw on a Workhorse W24 (24,000lb GVWR/30,000lb GCWR) can carry the RV and load totaling 24,000lb...then - if fully loaded to GVWR - it can also tow a 6,000lb trailer.

If the RV is not fully loaded to GVWR, then the allowed towable weight can safely be increased. There are those that argue about if it is 1 to 1 ratio for GVWR to GCWR...I will let those people argue about that.

These terms are standard to all motor vehicles. Here's more reading:
Understanding RV Weights

Hope that helps
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:08 PM   #223
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Got some numbers from the owner if a 2013 Thor Outlaw 37LS:

GCWR - 30,000lb
GVWR - 24,000lb
UVW - 19,575lb
CCC - 4,425lb
Allowable towable weight at GVWR - 6,000lb

The 37LS is exactly 1 foot longer than the legacy 3611 at 38'4"- explaining the slight difference in UVW of those models.

Thanks to Tpspuck!

Still looking for the numbers for the Thor Outlaw 37MD - at 38'7". Since is has a separate TV Lounge/Bedroom, I expect the CCC to be slightly lower.

Safe travels to all
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:29 AM   #224
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Newmar All Star 4258 Video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarab0088 View Post
For your enjoyment - It's really not a video - more of a slide show, but this gives a great overview of this amazing Toyhauler.

Used 2007 Newmar AllStar 4253 Diesel Class A Motorhome Toy Hauler Ohio - YouTube

See post #10 for more info on these discontinued RV's.
Here is a video on an All Star 4258 that was sold out of MHSRV. It's mostly all about the exterior, and with the link above adds to what we know about these amazing Toy Haulers.

FWI: The last minute of the video is not specific to the All Star:
Used 2009 Newmar Toy Hauler RV for Sale at Motor Home Specialist - SOLD - YouTube

Safe travels
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