Class "A" Toyhaulers

[bross]

We had the older P22 Workhorse with the 454 and it had enough power for us, could pull 70mph up any of our passes if I wanted to, it would be revving between 4-5000 then but I typically kept it around 3500-4000 which would be around 50-55mph. We drove that motorhome for 4 years back and forth from Canada to CA, AZ etc. and had zero chassis issues. Just regular maintenance of oil changes, tranny fluid & filter, brake fluid, coolant flush fill etc. Sold it with 60,000miles on it.

We just came through some of our steeper mountain passes with our new Ford V10 and it definitely revs more than the 454 did, probably end up turning 1000-1500rpm more with the V10 than I did with the 454. Absolutely love the transmission in the Ford though, it is miles ahead of the older Chevy tranny. It should be, it's in a 14 year newer chassis. The F53 chassis is a dream to drive as well, feels way steadier and just easier to maintain lane position than the older P22.

Bottom line is yes the Ford V10 is a revver and louder than my older Chevy 454 but in all honesty how much time do I spend pulling passes on a trip, even living out west where we tend to criss cross the mountains on our way to and from the coast? It's a small percentage of our actual rolling time. My wife wears a pair of Bose Noise Cancelling headphones when we're in the mountains, she wore them in the older 454 and still wears them with the new Ford V10.

[FatboyM]

I am posting this here also (if that is allowed) because I like the Class A idea & want you experienced, non conformist RV owners to jump in too.

Originally Posted by Scarab0088

I found this link intersting -

EHow - How to convert a Motorhome into a Toy hauler:
How to Convert a Motorhome Into a Toy Hauler | eHow.com

It's very simplified and does not give credit for the photo of a Thor/Damon Outlaw, but it does seem to cover the high points

I am THAT guy (if I can't find what I need, then I will make it) to a certain degree. This link makes it sound so simple, but maybe people can chime in on what would be the pros & cons of doing this?
First off re-sale, not to concerned with.
I don't have unlimited budget (just started think about this 5 minutes ago).
There would obviously be a buy low & reuse what I can type approach.

I understand I am very naive & have no prior experience & this is probably a crazy idea. BUT! Lose your better judgement for a few & have fun with this, let it fly.

Looking to take a class A or C & add a garage in the rear similar to the Outlaw, Bounty Hunter, Fun Mover, Seneca, etc....
This mostly because all of the above are hard to find & it would be fun.
Besides I need an 11 foot or larger garage.
Wouldn't it be just a little cooler to have a "custom" motorhome?

[Badlands]

Originally Posted by Scarab0088

And the sky is the limit for the "deep pocket" buyer:
Attachment 23783

I saw this one on a TV show - the RV's suspension raises and the toyhauler tray drops to allow the tray to slide out unload the car.

Saw one of these at an RV show in Sacramento years ago, along with the Bounty Hunter.

[Scarab0088]

Originally Posted by FatboyM

I am posting this here also (if that is allowed) because I like the Class A idea & want you experienced, non conformist RV owners to jump in too.

I am THAT guy (if I can't find what I need, then I will make it) to a certain degree. This link makes it sound so simple, but maybe people can chime in on what would be the pros & cons of doing this?
First off re-sale, not to concerned with.
I don't have unlimited budget (just started think about this 5 minutes ago).
There would obviously be a buy low & reuse what I can type approach.

I understand I am very naive & have no prior experience & this is probably a crazy idea. BUT! Lose your better judgement for a few & have fun with this, let it fly.

Looking to take a class A or C & add a garage in the rear similar to the Outlaw, Bounty Hunter, Fun Mover, Seneca, etc....
This mostly because all of the above are hard to find & it would be fun.
Besides I need an 11 foot or larger garage.
Wouldn't it be just a little cooler to have a "custom" motorhome?

This is actually not too hard to do by getting an old rear bedroom Class A or C, remove the bedroom stuff, remove the rear cap, and engineer a garage door into the rear wall (lift or ramp). A pre-fab roll-up door and Tommy-Lift would reduce the engineering needed.

With this, you just won't get the loft found in the Bounty Hunter and Outlaw.

The garage can still be used as a bedroom with a Happi-jac drop-down bed system (like Newmar's Canyon Star 3920/21) or the typical toy hauler bench/bunks that mount to the wall (like the Outlaws).

The only hiccup could be that many RV makers use the under-bed box for a fresh water tank. So that would need to be moved to a bin.

If you do it, really hope you post pics

[toomoxy]

I have been dreaming of buying Thor Outlaw 2013+ because I want the drop down bed and over the garage loft sleeping as well as the party patio.

My current one is a Class A Four Winds Wind sport Toy Hauler.
So we went and looked at a new Outlaw 2014 37LS.

Honestly I had to really wonder who designed some of this otherwise cool unit.

screen doors. Come on they have this new plastic
button that you slide down that activates the actual screen door opener so you don’t have to slide the cover over to open the screen door from the inside . Why didn’t they put that feature on there when it is on most newer Travel trailers.
Also why don’t they offer a Keyless entry, with fob feature. I will be adding the aftermarket Bauer electric door lock !


Flush mount windows “sound” cool, but… try cranking one open, because you better not have tendinitis and they don’t fully crank open to get a breeze inside ! They should open wider to get a breeze and there has to be a better crank mechanism than a round knob… I much prefer sliders.

2 AC’s that are side by side ? Really ? how functional is that ?
Why wouldn’t they put one ceiling AC over the living area closer
To the drop down bed…
And one AC unit outside the bathroom door closer to the loft bedroom area because I can see that getting really hot up there. But 2 AC’s side by side is ridiculous… this has to be a mistake that they just “rolled with” and wondering if this will be corrected in newer models.

3. Bathroom Max Fan is brilliant to have, however having a mounted remote
outside the bathroom door instead of a hard wired MaxFan switch is just cheap and tacky.

4. Shower . The height of most men is higher than the shower door and shower surround. Which means a ton of water will be spraying over into the bathroom and onto unprotected walls. I don’t understand this considering Thor has an over 6 foot high ceiling that they could have used. We would have to install glass above the shower door to keep the water inside the shower and tiles to protect the walls inside the shower.
Outside the shower is around 3” of space to the door frame and to the vanity so Thor could have put a wider shower in there as well OR even better designed a hotel type curved shower door and base.

5 LOVE the drop down front bed, but wish they had done some sort of
100% sun block out surround for it.

6. TV… glad it slides out from the wall, but why would they not mount it on a swivel type TV mount, so you could also move it up and sideways ?

7. Fluorescent lights instead of LED’s in the ceiling ??

Defects.. we found in the first 20 minutes had us pretty scared considering this was a "NEW" 2014 that has sat on the lot for a year. The screen door latch didn't work, the gas tank fill looked like someone broke it open, the bathroom vanity top delaminated, there was a water stain on the ceiling above the TV area, there was a "low" floor area outside the bathroom door area, front window curtain had fallen off of the track, generator had issues starting, outside cargo area door didn't work, the party patio was put together wrong… are these common issues in the 2014 models ??

[bross]

Originally Posted by toomoxy

...are these common issues in the 2014 models ??

Not our Canyon Star. We have good old style slider windows, with the dual shades, that worked flawlessly on our 14 year old Winnebago so expect these should work just as well long term. We had an air conditioner act up from day one but was just replaced but other than that finish is good and everything operates as designed. I had read many horror stories of walk throughs on brand new motorhomes and even worse 5th wheels but ours was a positive experience. I think a lot of the time it really comes down to dealer prep. A good dealer will go through and catch a lot of the things you mentioned whereas a dealer just moving stock won't even look at the unit before showing it to a customer.

[Scarab0088]

Originally Posted by toomoxy

I have been dreaming of buying Thor Outlaw 2013+ because I want the drop down bed and over the garage loft sleeping as well as the party patio.

My current one is a Class A Four Winds Wind sport Toy Hauler.
So we went and looked at a new Outlaw 2014 37LS.

- Very nice Outlaw...almost a copy of the 3611 - the original and best selling Class A Toy Hauler

Honestly I had to really wonder who designed some of this otherwise cool unit.

screen doors. Come on they have this new plastic button that you slide down that activates the actual screen door opener so you don’t have to slide the cover over to open the screen door from the inside . Why didn’t they put that feature on there when it is on most newer Travel trailers.

-TMC is using very widely used RV systems from vendors to keep costs down. I appreciate that and most anything can be added by owners thanks to simple construction methods.

Also why don’t they offer a Keyless entry, with fob feature. I will be adding the aftermarket Bauer electric door lock !

-See the first rely above...an easy cost saver. And I don't want all that automated stuff in the case of dead batterys.

Flush mount windows “sound” cool, but… try cranking one open, because you better not have tendinitis and they don’t fully crank open to get a breeze inside ! They should open wider to get a breeze and there has to be a better crank mechanism than a round knob… I much prefer sliders.

-Standard is dual pane...the flush glass is an option, and might not be such a good idea(?).

2 AC’s that are side by side ? Really ? how functional is that ?
Why wouldn’t they put one ceiling AC over the living area closer
To the drop down bed…
And one AC unit outside the bathroom door closer to the loft bedroom area because I can see that getting really hot up there. But 2 AC’s side by side is ridiculous… this has to be a mistake that they just “rolled with” and wondering if this will be corrected in newer models.

- The 2 ducted aircons work well and the rear unit is not at risk of impact from tree branches like it would be if moved rearward (angled roof). The loft gets plenty of cool air and with the ducts being less than 2 feet from a sleeping body, cools us very well. The front drop-down bed should be the same, with 2 ducts very close that will blow directly on sleeping campers.

3. Bathroom Max Fan is brilliant to have, however having a mounted remote
outside the bathroom door instead of a hard wired MaxFan switch is just cheap and tacky.

-The remote switch is a great idea due to the very high ceiling and outside is very useful as you enter the bath. Our bath Fantastic brand fan has the hard wired switch inside the bathroom, and we would enjoy having a switch outside the bath too.

4. Shower . The height of most men is higher than the shower door and shower surround. Which means a ton of water will be spraying over into the bathroom and onto unprotected walls. I don’t understand this considering Thor has an over 6 foot high ceiling that they could have used. We would have to install glass above the shower door to keep the water inside the shower and tiles to protect the walls inside the shower.

-See the first post above...off the shelf parts keep costs down. Being 6' tall, I had thought about extending the surround, but it would have looked funny. So, I just applied a liberal amount of Scotchguard water sealant to the wall covering and sealed the top edge of the surround with silicon caulk...viola' - no problem.

Outside the shower is around 3” of space to the door frame and to the vanity so Thor could have put a wider shower in there as well OR even better designed a hotel type curved shower door and base.

-You are right! But see the first reply above. A curved shower door for an RV shower is just not available...I have looked. The 24"x36" shower is actually a very comfortable size for my 6' frame. No problem.

5 LOVE the drop down front bed, but wish they had done some sort of
100% sun block out surround for it.

-You are right! Run stop nylon would be better than the netting...just an opinion...but the whole piece is elastic, so they would need to work-out the logistics of a block-out screen. I also think TMC wants to discourage traveling with anyone sleeping above the drivers head (daytime napping kids?).

6. TV… glad it slides out from the wall, but why would they not mount it on a swivel type TV mount, so you could also move it up and sideways ?

-The TV will impact the closed slide frame if not confined...TMC is helping those owners that might not be careful. Another easy mod...I did it

7. Fluorescent lights instead of LED’s in the ceiling ??

-LED's came in the 2015's - another easy mod for us without LED's

*Defects.. we found in the first 20 minutes had us pretty scared considering this was a "NEW" 2014 that has sat on the lot for a year. The screen door latch didn't work, the gas tank fill looked like someone broke it open, the bathroom vanity top delaminated, there was a water stain on the ceiling above the TV area, there was a "low" floor area outside the bathroom door area, front window curtain had fallen off of the track, generator had issues starting, outside cargo area door didn't work, the party patio was put together wrong… are these common issues in the 2014 models ??

- It has sat on the dealers lot for a year?! Some of these issues sound like dealer abuse...like I watched a saleman break a jack-knife sofa while trying to show how it worked
I have read about QC issues on new models from all brands - even Foretravel, Newmar,and other boutique builders making a fraction of the numbers from TMC, Jayco, and Winnie. All I can say is, I would not take possession until it was all corrected. All mfgt's are making RV's as fast as they can...this is leading to issues.

Opinions inserted above...there are many Mods and Up-grades that can be done...it is still a mid-level price point...so, we have this:
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f121/outl...-149108-4.html

Safe travels

[BpK9Miami]

TooMoxy, wow, that's quite a list. What impressed me was the quality of the things you noticed, but I have to agree with the below post replying to your bullet points. The Outlaw is NOT perfect, IMHO especially the new models. Yet, most of the issues you raise are luxury or user driven items, not something that a manufacturer would normally eat the expense to put into or on a mid-range toy hauler. Higher end perhaps, but not the Outlaws or even the canyon series I've seen.

We all have are personal items list, that stuff we look for and won't compromise on, I admit that. Yet, I think if you check around the various Outlaw threads here and elsewhere, you'll find the Outlaws are still the favorite - even with warts - and can be customized and modified to each persons individual wants and needs more than any of the other models in the Class A series that are available.

Best of luck with your search, and please, perhaps keep us updated on what you finally obtain!

[toomoxy]

Originally Posted by Scarab0088

Opinions inserted above...there are many Mods and Up-grades that can be done...it is still a mid-level price point...so, we have this:
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f121/outl...-149108-4.html

Safe travels

Thanks for answering my "concerns"…
Yeah it is not a "breaking point" for me as too many other plus's.
and I did just finish touring the modifications ..wow wish I were handy !
Love the wall having the bigger TV and fireplace… and the
towel bars for above cabinets !!

I also forgot … in photos the "tiles" featured were not tiles but wall paper border…LOL LOL I will add those smart tiles that look like glass…

[MonkeyClaw]

A lot was answered already. I just picked up my 2015 so I can add a little to the conversation.

Originally Posted by toomoxy

Honestly I had to really wonder who designed some of this otherwise cool unit.

screen doors. Come on they have this new plastic
button that you slide down that activates the actual screen door opener so you don’t have to slide the cover over to open the screen door from the inside . Why didn’t they put that feature on there when it is on most newer Travel trailers.
Also why don’t they offer a Keyless entry, with fob feature. I will be adding the aftermarket Bauer electric door lock !

I'm not completely sure what you are referring to, but on the 2015 the screen door can be opened from the inside or the outside. There is a plastic piece that slides over the opening, but that is just so you can open the main door. If you just want to use the screen door, you can leave the plastic piece closed and open from either side. On my old RV (2013 Jayco) you have to open the plastic cover to open the screen door from the inside. Not sure if this was a new feature or I am misunderstanding you.

Flush mount windows “sound” cool, but… try cranking one open, because you better not have tendinitis and they don’t fully crank open to get a breeze inside ! They should open wider to get a breeze and there has to be a better crank mechanism than a round knob… I much prefer sliders.

I haven't decided if I like the flush-mount or not. They can only be opened a certain amount, but both sides can be opened (on a slide, one side can't be opened). Also, if it's sprinkling you can keep the windows open without water dripping in. So there are pros and cons to both.

2 AC’s that are side by side ? Really ? how functional is that ?
Why wouldn’t they put one ceiling AC over the living area closer
To the drop down bed…
And one AC unit outside the bathroom door closer to the loft bedroom area because I can see that getting really hot up there. But 2 AC’s side by side is ridiculous… this has to be a mistake that they just “rolled with” and wondering if this will be corrected in newer models.

They could definitely move one AC closer to the front. I don't know if there would be any advantage to it though. The rear is height-constrained as was mentioned previously. I haven't found it to be an issue. At night I've been turning on the front AC for temp and using the rear AC fan only. This keeps the temp comfortable without the cycling of the AC blowing on us. I wish they had an 'AC/Fan on' mode but I can live with it the way it is. I also wish there was a way to remove the 'furnace' mode from the rear one...

3. Bathroom Max Fan is brilliant to have, however having a mounted remote outside the bathroom door instead of a hard wired MaxFan switch is just cheap and tacky.

In my unit, the remote is for the max fan in the salon area, not the bathroom. The bathroom fan is hard-wired. I like the temp-controlled remote, I didn't even know they existed until I picked up my coach.

4. Shower . The height of most men is higher than the shower door and shower surround. Which means a ton of water will be spraying over into the bathroom and onto unprotected walls. I don’t understand this considering Thor has an over 6 foot high ceiling that they could have used. We would have to install glass above the shower door to keep the water inside the shower and tiles to protect the walls inside the shower.
Outside the shower is around 3” of space to the door frame and to the vanity so Thor could have put a wider shower in there as well OR even better designed a hotel type curved shower door and base.

I'm happy with the shower. Sure, it could be a little bigger but I say that about every shower. I haven't noticed it being too low but I'm only 5'7". I know for a fact that 2 can fit in the shower though

5 LOVE the drop down front bed, but wish they had done some sort of 100% sun block out surround for it.

That would be nice, I could see it being handy. It's just a spare bed for us though so I haven't thought a lot about it.

7. Fluorescent lights instead of LED’s in the ceiling ??

Mine came with LED throughout most of the interior. I think the vanity light in the bathroom are incandescent but I'm not positive. All of the lights in the storage bays are also incandescent. I think the old florescent lights in the garage are actually LED also but I didn't take off the covers to verify.

Defects.. we found in the first 20 minutes had us pretty scared considering this was a "NEW" 2014 that has sat on the lot for a year. The screen door latch didn't work, the gas tank fill looked like someone broke it open, the bathroom vanity top delaminated, there was a water stain on the ceiling above the TV area, there was a "low" floor area outside the bathroom door area, front window curtain had fallen off of the track, generator had issues starting, outside cargo area door didn't work, the party patio was put together wrong… are these common issues in the 2014 models ??

Thor's QC is crap. Crap, crap, crap.
x 1 million.
x infinity.

I found many issues with my RV at pick-up and on the drive home. Yes, they should have been caught by the dealer but seriously Thor should never have shipped the unit like they did. A few issues were major (drain for bathroom and shower not hooked up???!!! No set screw for the rear slide motor???!!! Leaky windshield due to improper installation???!!! Backflow limiter installed backwards on black tank flush???!!!). Several were minor (missing screws, things like that). They need to FIRE their WHOLE QC department. Normally I give the benefit of the doubt but it's obvious they aren't doing their jobs. They brag about a 200-point inspection before leaving the factory but I've never seen a checklist. Whatever the 200 points are, they left off a few. They need to expand it to 1000 points. Even so, they'll still miss a few.

In any case, I really like the design and am hoping that we don't find any more issues. If you decide to buy, make sure you can spend several days at the dealer living in it before you leave. Test EVERYTHING several times and make a note of ANYTHING that is even slightly wrong.

[joyreturns]

I have a question about some of the modifications. Since I'm techno-challenged and not very handy with fixing anything, would a dealer do those things for me, or would I need to look elsewhere for the fixes, and to whom would I go?
I test-drove the LS and loved it. I didn't buy from that dealer because it had a damaged basement door and he had all sorts of problems getting it ready to test drive (forgot to put in the slide) and also had a hard time starting it. Didn't seem to be a problem with the unit, just not prepped properly to show. I also knew where I could get it cheaper.
It's a bit intimidating for me to buy a motorhome due to lack of experience. That being said, from the research I have done, the Outlaw seems to be a good motorhome.
I'm glad I saw what was said about the windows because it seems that the standard dual pane is the way to go.
I'm 5' 11" and the shower seemed fine to me. Doing the extra sealing seems like a good idea, though.
I didn't see the patio set up, but if the dealer had it set up incorrectly, that seems more a dealer issue than a unit issue. Another reason I wasn't comfortable with the dealership I test drove with is that when he was driving, he ran over a curb, and having never driven one before, when I was driving, I didn't drive over any curbs. With having only one unit in stock, I wondered how abused the unit had been.
I'm learning I should be very picky on the walk through of a unit. I did open every cabinet every where and found no loose anything on the unit.
What other advice do you have for me in purchasing my unit?

Being as I have no experience, how would I know things like whether the drains are hooked up properly? The dealership from whom I plan to buy does make it possible to live in the unit a few days to make sure I know how to run everything and everything works as it should before I take delivery. Should I plan a week or two to make sure everything gets fixed? Again, any and all advice will be appreciated.

[Scarab0088]

Joyreturns,

Mods and upgrades are most often a DIY thing for owners - or friends of owners. But there are RV shops that do mods. Like "Lazy Days" RV in FL are being featured in a Travel Channel show currently being aired called "Big Time RV" and the show features 2 guys that do mods at the dealership.

The owner's check of a new RV at purchase is called the "Per Delivery Inspection" (PDI). There are several PDI Checklists here on iRV2.

With the current state of affairs in the RV business - and with the fact that the RV's are driven to the dealer by delivery drivers (you can't do factory pick-up with TMC and they are not carried to the dealer on a truck), salesmen drive them, there are sometimes test-drives done before you see it, etc., I would go through every system - really testing everything - and spend at least 1 night in the coach using everything from the shower, to the HVAC, to the black tank flush (see above), before leaving the area of the selling dealership...to make them fix the things I found that need fixing.

Best luck

[MonkeyClaw]

Also run it on the generator for a somewhat extended period of time and live like you're boondocking. Unhook and use the water pump and AC and all of the other systems during the heat of the day and late into the evening.

[bross]

Originally Posted by Scarab0088

Joyreturns,

Mods and upgrades are most often a DIY thing for owners - or friends of owners. But there are RV shops that do mods. Like "Lazy Days" RV in FL are being featured in a Travel Channel show currently being aired called "Big Time RV" and the show features 2 guys that do mods at the dealership.

The owner's check of a new RV at purchase is called the "Per Delivery Inspection" (PDI). There are several PDI Checklists here on iRV2.

With the current state of affairs in the RV business - and with the fact that the RV's are driven to the dealer by delivery drivers (you can't do factory pick-up with TMC and they are not carried to the dealer on a truck), salesmen drive them, there are sometimes test-drives done before you see it, etc., I would go through every system - really testing everything - and spend at least 1 night in the coach using everything from the shower, to the HVAC, to the black tank flush (see above), before leaving the area of the selling dealership...to make them fix the things I found that need fixing.

Best luck

Originally Posted by MonkeyClaw

Also run it on the generator for a somewhat extended period of time and live like you're boondocking. Unhook and use the water pump and AC and all of the other systems during the heat of the day and late into the evening.

This is what you want to do ^^^^, if you can't stay in the dealers lot, we weren't allowed to either, find a nearby campground and book into it for at least a night or two. Our dealer had a campground a block away but we just boondocked in our sons church parking lot as that was only 30 minutes away from the dealer.

As suggested, follow the check lists Steve mentioned you can find on here, and I know it sounds simple, but read your manual. Ours came with quite a comprehensive manual and even though we've been doing this for a few years now, I have learned a couple things by reading my manual. That's also a good way to test your reading lights and your batteries.