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Old 09-28-2013, 06:50 AM   #15
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What charges your batteries depends on what is running and a few other things

When Rolling, Rolling, Rolling down the highway.. Engine alternator

When parked, if you have an "In-Line" type inverter as I do (Example Xantrex Prosine 2.0) it both charges and, if no other 120vac is to be found, discharges the batteries. Either passing 120vac to it's selected loads or ... Providing it.

If you do not have an In-line converter (Or in some cases even if you do, Mine for example) you have a CONVERTER, this may or (again in my case) may not be part of your power distribution panel.

For assorted reasons I disabled the charger module in the Prosine (Easily done, switch on remote control panel) and choose to use the factory installed Progressive Dynamics 9180 w/Wizard, but the PDI is a plug in unit (has a genuine plug on the end of a cord) and sometimes it gets pulled,,, When that happens, it does not work.. So CLICK and the prosine takes over till I get dressed and go outside to the converter and plug it back in.

Other things that can "kill" a converter are blown fuses... If you have an intergrated one they are OFTEN (I suspect not always) the two on the far right, NOTE: when replacing converter fuses replace ALL of them while not connected to 120vac, Then plug back in.

Finally.. Something you said was significant depending on what you meant..

you said: The generator will not STAY running

May I assume you are using your Emergency start button, or some other means, to start it?

IF so, hold the button in for at least ONE FULL MINUTE after the generator starts. (See note_) Takes a bit of time for the transfer switch to do it's thing, Usually when it does, Lights brighten, Fans speed up and there are other "Indicators" the converter is converting.

Until that happens, the Generators fuel and ignition systems are 100% on battery power.. Which you seem to be out of.

the note: ON my rig I can often HEAR the switch transfer, at this point, go ahead and let her go.
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedman42 View Post
I have looked everywhere and have not seen a thread on this. What charges your coach batteries. My Onan 7.5 gen will not stay runing and the codes says low voltage or bag positive conection to the batteries. My coach lights will barley come in unless I have the coach running. My generator will also not start unless I use Aux power. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Besides what's already been said, clamp a jumper cable on the neg. term. and connect the other end to a good ground for beginners. Is the water level OK in the house batteries and do you have two 6v connected in series, two 12's in parallel or more? After some voltage checking with and without any charging mechanism, you can always disconnect them, and put them on a separate battery charger to see if they come up to par and if they'll indeed hold a charge.
In other words, isolate them from the coach to verify that the batteries are good.
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:47 AM   #17
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How old are your batteries....both chassis and house. Sounds to me that they should be replaced.

As for your question... shore power (through your converter), your generator, and the engine's alternator will all charge the house batteries. On most coaches, only the generator or the engine's alternator will charge the chassis batteries. However, that said...there ARE some coaches where the chassis batteries will also be charged when connected to shore power.

Use your multimeter and measure the voltage at each set of batteries during different conditions to determine how yours is wired.

Hope this helps

Ron
Ron,
Curious to your statement that most coaches generator would charge chassis batteries. I have been having chassis battery drain as my charger/inverter do not charge chassis batteries so charging with separate charger or by cranking engine if it will start.......or you implying that if I cranked generator, it would charge chassis bats in some manner? I have a Amp L Start ordered to remmedy the problem but seeing your post made me wonder if I was missing something.
Still learning.
My generator will give power to charger to charge house batteries but if it charges chassis bats I was not aware of it....hope you are right. That would be a good thing to know.
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Old 09-28-2013, 09:43 AM   #18
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Ron,
Curious to your statement that most coaches generator would charge chassis batteries. I have been having chassis battery drain as my charger/inverter do not charge chassis batteries so charging with separate charger or by cranking engine if it will start.......or you implying that if I cranked generator, it would charge chassis bats in some manner? I have a Amp L Start ordered to remmedy the problem but seeing your post made me wonder if I was missing something.
Still learning.
My generator will give power to charger to charge house batteries but if it charges chassis bats I was not aware of it....hope you are right. That would be a good thing to know.
Bill
Shore power or generator makes no difference to the charger and with our coach, the chassis battery is only charged after the house batteries are brought up to the required level. With the engine alternator, charging is immediate.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:15 AM   #19
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Shore power or generator makes no difference to the charger and with our coach, the chassis battery is only charged after the house batteries are brought up to the required level. With the engine alternator, charging is immediate.
I would like for mine charger to work that way. The Xantrex Freedom 458 C/I works fine with house but chassis bats are alternator only......unless of course something is not working that I am not aware of. Once I get the Amp L Start installed then the chassis bats should be maintained. Thanks. Bill
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:54 AM   #20
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I would like for mine charger to work that way. The Xantrex Freedom 458 C/I works fine with house but chassis bats are alternator only......unless of course something is not working that I am not aware of. Once I get the Amp L Start installed then the chassis bats should be maintained. Thanks. Bill
Well, you might want to check it out and I think that the way it works is that there's a relay contactor or solenoid on the DC PC Bd, that closes or opens at a predetermined voltage and tying the two banks together. Get the info from your board and publish it here on the forums if you don't have a diagram or documentation explaining it's operation.
This Xantrex Freedom 458 is a converter or converter/inverter charger, is it not and the board itself should be what controls this operation?
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:27 PM   #21
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This Xantrex Freedom 458 is a converter or converter/inverter charger, is it not and the board itself should be what controls this operation?
tropical36
It is NOT what??
I don't understand.

Thanks
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Old 09-28-2013, 03:58 PM   #22
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tropical36
It is NOT what??
I don't understand.

Thanks
Mel
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Just asking if this description is your DC power supply and not the DC circuit board itself. The board with all the fuses, breakers and solenoid relays should be what controls and what charges what.
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Old 09-28-2013, 05:52 PM   #23
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Well, you might want to check it out and I think that the way it works is that there's a relay contactor or solenoid on the DC PC Bd, that closes or opens at a predetermined voltage and tying the two banks together. Get the info from your board and publish it here on the forums if you don't have a diagram or documentation explaining it's operation.
This Xantrex Freedom 458 is a converter or converter/inverter charger, is it not and the board itself should be what controls this operation?
Trop,
I do not have electrical diagram but do have Xantrex Freedom 458 manual. No where in the manual to I find evidence of unit being a converter nor do I find mention that it charges house AND chassis batteries. Manual refers to unit as Inverter/Charger as does the front of the unit. The panel/remote board shows no evidence of chassis charge that I can see. I can run engine a while and chassis batteries come up to around 12.6V then two-three days later they are at 12.0V which is plenty to crank in summer but when I get too much shy of that in winter, and sometimes summer, engine does not want to crank. I hope I am justified in buying the Amp-L-Start and it takes care of my drain. Xantrex F458 seem to accomodate house bank just fine keeping them at a 13.3V on average with no load to speak of. Bill
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:37 PM   #24
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Trop,
I do not have electrical diagram but do have Xantrex Freedom 458 manual. No where in the manual to I find evidence of unit being a converter nor do I find mention that it charges house AND chassis batteries. Manual refers to unit as Inverter/Charger as does the front of the unit. The panel/remote board shows no evidence of chassis charge that I can see. I can run engine a while and chassis batteries come up to around 12.6V then two-three days later they are at 12.0V which is plenty to crank in summer but when I get too much shy of that in winter, and sometimes summer, engine does not want to crank. I hope I am justified in buying the Amp-L-Start and it takes care of my drain. Xantrex F458 seem to accomodate house bank just fine keeping them at a 13.3V on average with no load to speak of. Bill
This unit is supposed to be putting out 120vac to selected outlets and 12vdc to the 12vdc circuit board, which in turn will charge the house batteries and possibly the chassis, depending on what's on the circuit board itself. This board should have some description of operation and as previously stated, indicate it's name and model number here on the forums and maybe someone will have the same along with it's description of operation. Meanwhile, while plugged in to shore power and not plugged in compare the voltage readings and do so on both banks of batteries. This is best done before they are fully charged, so that the difference is more noticeable. Again and like I said, mine will only begin to charge the chassis after the coach reaches a predetermined level, so that may be required before seeing any differences on the the chassis battery.
As a side note, keep in mind that if anything of value is plugged into the selected inverter outlets when not connected to an external power source, the coach batteries will be heading down hill before too long .
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:44 PM   #25
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By definition a 120 VAC converter is a charger. How else do you think a 12 VDC battery gets charged except by using 12VDC current to charge it?

The Inverter/Converter/Charger will not have a control board to determine where the 12 VDC goes to, the house or the chassis.

Normally they are wired to the house and then some coaches will have either a simple or a sophisticated system AFTER the charger to determine whether the Chassis battery bank gets charged too.

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Old 09-28-2013, 10:50 PM   #26
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Trop,
I do not have electrical diagram but do have Xantrex Freedom 458 manual. No where in the manual to I find evidence of unit being a converter nor do I find mention that it charges house AND chassis batteries. Manual refers to unit as Inverter/Charger as does the front of the unit. The panel/remote board shows no evidence of chassis charge that I can see. I can run engine a while and chassis batteries come up to around 12.6V then two-three days later they are at 12.0V which is plenty to crank in summer but when I get too much shy of that in winter, and sometimes summer, engine does not want to crank. I hope I am justified in buying the Amp-L-Start and it takes care of my drain. Xantrex F458 seem to accomodate house bank just fine keeping them at a 13.3V on average with no load to speak of. Bill
Your unit is ONE of the 458 series inverter/chargers with transfer switching. You may want to research the exact model further and you can find part numbers and differences between the units.
When you are plugged into shore power it provides 120V to whatever the outputs are connected to AND also charges your batteries with a 3 stage charger that also has an EQ function. (Download your control panel manual as well as the 458 manual!) It will effectively charge and maintain both wet and AGM batteries AND you can add temp control if you would like. You have a minimum of a 50 amp charger.
When you disconnect from shore power...the transfer switch flips over to battery and it draws on your batteries to provide at least 1000 watts of AC power.
Depending on the model you actually have you could have as much as 140amp charging and 3000 watts of AC inverter output.
This of course assumes that you have a working unit....but these were excellent units and if you have blown fuses or a simple repair needed, they are well worth a few bucks to keep going.
One simple test would be to just run some AC appliances/lights off the batteries and the Xantrex for a while with the coach not plugged in to shore power. After you've put a decent load on the batteries for a couple of hours...then plug in again to shore power which should trip the tranfer switch and start the charging process. Within 1 minute you should see the green lights on your Xantrex control panel labeled volts creep up to 14 or 14.5... you should also see three or four leds light up on the DC amps column. After several hours, you should see the first column of lights back in the 13.3 range and the amps with just the <10 led lit. If all that works...you are in good shape electrically.
You can use this Xantrex to charge the house batteries and then a TrikLchrge or Echo Charge to keep the chassis battery topped up with no problem.
Good luck!
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:02 AM   #27
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Not sure if all Xantrex units were the same in this respect, but the one on my boat had 2 separate 15A Echo charge terminals. If yours has one (check manual), running a wire to the chassis batts could be all that's needed.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:22 AM   #28
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Recieved a Verdict yesterday on my problem. The inverter and transfer switch are both bad. They dont make the one that is my motorhome so there replacing it with the new version.... $2400.00 OUCH!!
But after that we should be ready to hit the road..
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