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Old 03-15-2015, 07:41 PM   #169
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Was this shut Down?

New to this forum, why was this shut down?
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Old 03-15-2015, 07:45 PM   #170
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No as evidenced by the fact that you just posted.
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Old 03-15-2015, 09:06 PM   #171
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If I was asked by a police officer if he could search my rv, I would be polite and tell him, "I know you are just trying to do you job officer but I am sorry but I do not consent to any search of my rv or person without a search warrant. It is being respectful and not showing any aggression. I then would say that I will not be answering any more questions. You must let him know that.
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Old 03-15-2015, 10:21 PM   #172
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I have read most of the posts in this thread, but if I missed some that will answer my following questions, please forgive me. I posted an experience we had last year, please see post #59.

So, after all of the passionate responses on both sides of this very interesting thread, have any of you had any experiences similar to the one I shared in post #59, but rather than offering to let them look in your moho, you informed the Law Enforcement Officers (LEO's) that you did not consent to searches? If so, what happened after that? I am not interested in stories that folks have "heard" about, or even been "told" about, or watched on the internet. I am interested in real encounters with LEO's that asked to search your moho, and you told them that you do not consent to searches.

If any of you have experiences not allowing searches of your other vehicles, that will be great, too. I am simply looking for any ramifications that you incurred that you felt were due to the denial to search.

If any of the LEO's on this site are willing to share their experiences from their side, that would be greatly appreciated, too. What did you do when you really wanted to search a vehicle, and you were denied? Did you issue a traffic citation anyway, or simply give a warning? Did you make them wait for a drug canine? What will you do if you are stopped in the future, and you are asked to consent to a search? Or, has this already happened?

I contacted several Highway Patrol agencies in the states we were traveling thru and were stopped, and spoke with supervisors on the phone. They all informed me that their LEO's were expected to follow certain guidelines, such as the following:

1. Immediately identify themselves.
2. Inform the driver of the reason they were stopped.
3. Make the encounter as brief as possible.
4. Treat everybody with respect, be polite, and be professional.

I also asked about the "weaving" reason for stopping a moho (since that was the primary reason given for most of our traffic stops), and they said most states have adopted a couple of interesting new rules. Some called it the "Weaving Plus" rule, where the LEO has to have another reason to stop a vehicle for weaving other than just not being able to maintain a straight path in their lane of travel. An example given was that the LEO witnessed the driver pulling out of an establishment that serves alcoholic beverages, then followed the vehicle for a mile or so and then witnessed the weaving that was like a red rubber ball bouncing off of 2 walls. I was also informed of a rule called the "Reasonable Person Rule", where LEO's are trained to know what a reasonable person would think about the incident, and if they would agree with the LEO and his assumption of a weaving vehicle. Finally, I was told by the supervisors that a windy day is NOT reason enough to make a traffic stop on a "weaving" vehicle, especially a moho. The states I contacted included Colorado, Oklahoma, Georgia, Arkansas, Arizona, and Texas.

So, now what? I plan on calling the State Highway Patrol agency in every state that we plan on driving thru, and ask the same questions each time. I will note the name of the supervisor, and carry it with me. If we are stopped again, I will feel better about my rights and the situation, and will be able to articulate with the LEO much better than before. Our moho wears the dreaded green Colorado license plates, and I feel this will be our best defense. In the past few years, we have been stopped for weaving; for having mud on a license plate; for possibly missing a bolt on our license plate (it was there, the LEO said "I thought it was missing"); for a safety chain on the Jeep that "appeared" to be close to dragging the ground (it was not); for going 56 mph in a 55 mph zone; and twice for a "driving award sticker" for driving safely! Each of those times drug canines went around the outside of our vehicle and found absolutely nothing. One of the supervisors asked how many traffic citations I have received. When I informed him I did not receive any citations, just a whole bunch of warnings, he said he was happy for that! I said that each of the stops took at least 20-30 minutes, so if you add them all up, it has added hours to our travels. He did not know what to say about that.

Thank you all for letting me vent. Feel free to share any of your experiences, and THANK YOU all for keeping this thread civil!

Bruce
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Old 03-15-2015, 10:48 PM   #173
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Too many people starting with the founding fathers and first Patriots sacrificed too much for any of us to so easily surrender our rights. I will not voluntarily submit to an unwarranted search. Simply look at how much of our freedom has been taken away since 9/11, and has led to the militarization of most of the police forces in the US. How many of us now have to worry more about contact with police than criminals, and how long has this been the norm, and how was it allowed to happen?
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Old 03-16-2015, 08:40 AM   #174
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Firebug5:
We have travelled extensively but have never been stopped. I am glad (and sorry) we cannot add to your experience folder.
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Old 03-16-2015, 01:35 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by koda59 View Post
After reading these post I have come to realize I wasted over 30 years of my life in the military defending this country and the Constitution. I guess now if stopped I will just lay down and tell the cop to do whatever he wants because I now realize that I have no rights left in this country. Maybe, if I was in this country illegally I would have rights.

Sad, but in my opinion true.
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:04 PM   #176
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Coach searched

As an ex-LEO of 33 yrs plus I'll share a few things that stand out.

1. I was of the old adage " I'll treat you just as well as you treat me". Not that I wasn't a lot nicer to those that were berating me. Attitude is king!

2. I was taught, and I passed along to those I trained, "There is the "letter" of the law and the "intent" of the law. I always tried to keep that in mind while doing my job.

3. Profiling is nothing more than using common sense. Putting two and two together. Profiling is now a bad thing according to the press.

4. I believe that Nebraska and Kansas(?) is trying to sue Colorado over their marijuana laws. Usually stuff rolls down hill and the poor officer on beat has to carry out stupid orders that the upper echelon comes up with. I really think this is the root of the problem and they want to hurt Colorado's tourism.

5. Stupid people do stupid things, cops included. Lord knows I've seen my fair share of people that should have never been allowed to be cops. The cop on the street knows who they are and they give the rest of us a bad name.

6. At times there is a lot that precedes a story that is left out.

7. I'm not going to rehash some of the comments because everyone is entitled their opinion.

8. Stuff happens and life isn't fair.....


Y'all have a god day and hope to see you camping!
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Old 03-16-2015, 11:26 PM   #177
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No warrant, No search, No exception.

Our 4th Amendment needs to stand for something. Once you allow access to your motorHOME, it's on you...
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:31 AM   #178
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Asking this of LEO's. If I was stopped in a state that had a reciprocal agreement with my home state, recognizing my Concealed Carry Permit, would that help to "prove" I had been background checked and was not a problem? I do not carry in my vehicle typically, as we normally only drive during the day, and only a few hundred miles at day. But I do carry in my TT, most times locked in a safe, (until we get to our destination). I would not give permission to search my vehicle, because I believe in the constitution and respect all who gave so much (myself included) to uphold those rights. I have nothing to hide, do not drink and have never does any drugs...don't even take aspirin.

There was just a news report about a elderly couple, stopped by a single LEO, who got an attitude. Almost to the point of accusing them of transporting drugs. He hassled them for a while, luckily it was all caught on his dash cam. Bottom line his Chief admitted he was "over zealous" in doing his job. When a cop is on the side of the road, he becomes judge jury and executioner. That scares me, I know I will not be believed, he will.

I did have one "incident" with an ILL State Trooper, years ago. I was in my early 30's, driving a conversion van, with my wife and 5 kids. Sat even on our way to a friends house. A trooper pulled me over saying I was speeding down the exit ramp. I asked politely, how I could I speed I was in a long line of traffic? this was in the 70's and I had short hair, clean cut, but the van I had converted, with round windows in the rear side. Long story I had to go to the local police department with the trooper (me following him) to post a cash bond. In the local PD he got right in my face in front of a local cop, and said, Why don't you start something, cause I want to finish it. I was prob 6 -8 " taller than him and I just stood at attention with my hands behind by back and, towering over him, asked in my softest voice, office do you have an issue? He said yea, when you get done I 'm going to have a field day on your vehicle. The other cop heard this. I was then taken into a small room in the back, luckily the door was left open, and this guy started yelling etc drawing the attention of the local cops. I asked to speak to his supervisor, he got him on the phone and when he handed it to me, I said Officer (speaking to the guy on the phone) the trooper grabbed the phone from me and said he's Not an officer , he's a sergeant, then dropped the phone on the floor. I picked the phone up and said I apologize sergeant, with the the trooper started making a jester with his hand, I said to the sergeant I can't believe what is happening now. The trooper grabbed the phone and said yea, I 'm making a jester like I'm jerking off cause that's what I think of this *******. He then threw the phone on the floor. Once again I picked it up and the sergeant said MR...could you please come to our office. When I said I don't think i'll make it as he threated to have a field day on my vehicle. The sergeant said he will not bother you. Long story, I drove about 15 miles to the State Trooper post, they interviewed me, my wife and all my kids, separately, I still have the report. We all said the same story, the truth, and the local police also corroborated everything i had said. Even had a Major come to my house to interview me. Bottom line, this trooper had been under police shrinks care, and was only given three days suspension. If it happened today I would of sued his ass off..sadly he is a killing waiting to happen, either him or someone else. He also was "training" a rookie at the time this all happened, the rookie just shook his head when I asked what he thought about what this guy was doing.

He was a loose cannon, and has 11 years on the force. I don't trust police anymore than they trust me. I know I have nothing to hide, and I know most police are honest and do a great job, but, I don't know if the one that may stop me is also having a bad day and under a shrinks care. Why they ever allowed him to work under those conditions. I told the Major, if I had not been so calm, and with my kids and wife, I have no doubt one of us would be dead. If he kills me, it's only his story that will told.

Bottom line, if i am stopped I show my hands, show what I'm asked to show, and do it politely, but I do not offer to allow them to do anything I'm not required to do by law. And I certainly don't want to do it without any witness. Sorry for rambling..
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:38 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecurb74 View Post
As an ex-LEO of 33 yrs plus I'll share a few things that stand out.

1. I was of the old adage " I'll treat you just as well as you treat me". Not that I wasn't a lot nicer to those that were berating me. Attitude is king!

2. I was taught, and I passed along to those I trained, "There is the "letter" of the law and the "intent" of the law. I always tried to keep that in mind while doing my job.

3. Profiling is nothing more than using common sense. Putting two and two together. Profiling is now a bad thing according to the press.

4. I believe that Nebraska and Kansas(?) is trying to sue Colorado over their marijuana laws. Usually stuff rolls down hill and the poor officer on beat has to carry out stupid orders that the upper echelon comes up with. I really think this is the root of the problem and they want to hurt Colorado's tourism.

5. Stupid people do stupid things, cops included. Lord knows I've seen my fair share of people that should have never been allowed to be cops. The cop on the street knows who they are and they give the rest of us a bad name.

6. At times there is a lot that precedes a story that is left out.

7. I'm not going to rehash some of the comments because everyone is entitled their opinion.

8. Stuff happens and life isn't fair.....


Y'all have a god day and hope to see you camping!
Yep...what he said!
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Old 03-17-2015, 01:54 AM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wags999 View Post
Asking this of LEO's. If I was stopped in a state that had a reciprocal agreement with my home state, recognizing my Concealed Carry Permit, would that help to "prove" I had been background checked and was not a problem? I do not carry in my vehicle typically, as we normally only drive during the day, and only a few hundred miles at day. But I do carry in my TT, most times locked in a safe, (until we get to our destination). I would not give permission to search my vehicle, because I believe in the constitution and respect all who gave so much (myself included) to uphold those rights. I have nothing to hide, do not drink and have never does any drugs...don't even take aspirin.

There was just a news report about a elderly couple, stopped by a single LEO, who got an attitude. Almost to the point of accusing them of transporting drugs. He hassled them for a while, luckily it was all caught on his dash cam. Bottom line his Chief admitted he was "over zealous" in doing his job. When a cop is on the side of the road, he becomes judge jury and executioner. That scares me, I know I will not be believed, he will.

I did have one "incident" with an ILL State Trooper, years ago. I was in my early 30's, driving a conversion van, with my wife and 5 kids. Sat even on our way to a friends house. A trooper pulled me over saying I was speeding down the exit ramp. I asked politely, how I could I speed I was in a long line of traffic? this was in the 70's and I had short hair, clean cut, but the van I had converted, with round windows in the rear side. Long story I had to go to the local police department with the trooper (me following him) to post a cash bond. In the local PD he got right in my face in front of a local cop, and said, Why don't you start something, cause I want to finish it. I was prob 6 -8 " taller than him and I just stood at attention with my hands behind by back and, towering over him, asked in my softest voice, office do you have an issue? He said yea, when you get done I 'm going to have a field day on your vehicle. The other cop heard this. I was then taken into a small room in the back, luckily the door was left open, and this guy started yelling etc drawing the attention of the local cops. I asked to speak to his supervisor, he got him on the phone and when he handed it to me, I said Officer (speaking to the guy on the phone) the trooper grabbed the phone from me and said he's Not an officer , he's a sergeant, then dropped the phone on the floor. I picked the phone up and said I apologize sergeant, with the the trooper started making a jester with his hand, I said to the sergeant I can't believe what is happening now. The trooper grabbed the phone and said yea, I 'm making a jester like I'm jerking off cause that's what I think of this *******. He then threw the phone on the floor. Once again I picked it up and the sergeant said MR...could you please come to our office. When I said I don't think i'll make it as he threated to have a field day on my vehicle. The sergeant said he will not bother you. Long story, I drove about 15 miles to the State Trooper post, they interviewed me, my wife and all my kids, separately, I still have the report. We all said the same story, the truth, and the local police also corroborated everything i had said. Even had a Major come to my house to interview me. Bottom line, this trooper had been under police shrinks care, and was only given three days suspension. If it happened today I would of sued his ass off..sadly he is a killing waiting to happen, either him or someone else. He also was "training" a rookie at the time this all happened, the rookie just shook his head when I asked what he thought about what this guy was doing.

He was a loose cannon, and has 11 years on the force. I don't trust police anymore than they trust me. I know I have nothing to hide, and I know most police are honest and do a great job, but, I don't know if the one that may stop me is also having a bad day and under a shrinks care. Why they ever allowed him to work under those conditions. I told the Major, if I had not been so calm, and with my kids and wife, I have no doubt one of us would be dead. If he kills me, it's only his story that will told.

Bottom line, if i am stopped I show my hands, show what I'm asked to show, and do it politely, but I do not offer to allow them to do anything I'm not required to do by law. And I certainly don't want to do it without any witness. Sorry for rambling..
Well Wags...in answer to your question at the top of your posting...

My cousin and my sister worked for years as Corrections Deputies. They worked in that capacity up to 2 and 3 years ago, respectively. My cousin is 67 years old and has been smoking marijuana everyday for more than 50 years...including while working as a corrections deputy and my sister got fired for furnishing marijuana and pills to inmates at her prison...along with sexual favors (despicable, I know)

To this day, they are both CCW permitted in their state...does that answer your question.
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Old 03-17-2015, 09:52 AM   #181
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The one thing I always do if pulled over by the police, before the officer reaches my vehicle is put my hands on the wheel with my drivers license between my knuckles. They are so appreciative of this small act, we start out on the right foot immediately. It must be a little unnerving for the officer to approach a stranger in a vehicle. Like they themselves would say, I reply with "I am just doing it to protect both of us".
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Old 03-18-2015, 03:52 AM   #182
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Wow! Just spent an hour reading all the posts in this thread. Certainly one of the most entertaining reads I've had on a forum in a long time! And although some have strayed a bit to the politics, most have kept on track - thanks!

I generally travel only in the states adjacent to mine, and CO is not one of them. But I do go almost cross-country every few years, and so far have not had the ill-luck of being stopped for any reason in my coach. I probably look a bit suspicious, but I try and treat everyone with respect, and learned long ago that you catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar.

I have had to go through the same Homeland Security checkpoint west of the Salton Sea many times, often with brand new RVs with only me as an occupant. I naturally (?) get a bit nervous in line wondering if the dogs will smell something a worker left behind that I didn't see, but when the agent speaks to me I ease up, answer their questions (knowing my facial expressions and demeanor are what they're looking at), and soon am on my way without incident. So far the dogs haven't found anything - and every time I wonder how that would go if I had my dog (who doesn't like many other dogs) with me - what a bark fest that would be!

Two decades ago I was in the wrong car in the wrong neighborhood being the wrong color, and got chased down by an LEO after passing them with someone they'd pulled over earlier. I wasn't speeding, but the factors I couldn't control had them sure I was up to no good. (clean cut Caucasian in an expensive rental car in a friends low-income 'hood late at night) When I asked why I was pulled over, the response was that I had a license plate light out. But I knew I looked like I must be selling "recreational products". I had nothing to hide so when they asked if they could search the car I consented - and they proceeded to search every nook and cranny with the utmost attention to detail. LUCKILY no one who rented the car previous to me left anything illegal in it, and they found nothing but after telling me I could go the original LEO told me she was sure I was "dirty". Not a pleasant experience, and when I told a LEO friend about it the next day (different agency) he said I should NEVER give consent...said if they have probable cause they will search and if they don't they shouldn't. Lesson learned.

But now traveling in a 43 foot coach AND after reading this thread, I worry that I might be profiled and have to deal with this once again in life. I'd like to think not, but obviously it can happen. I hope I can keep my wits, remain calm and respectful, and not give them consent instead telling them I'd be happy to wait for them to get a warrant if they feel the need to search the coach. I've been through far worse things in life, so although it wouldn't make me happy, it won't be the end of the world. I request others remove their shoes when boarding, because I hate things tracked into the coach (who knows where that LEO was trudging through prior), so I guess I'd just politely ask explaining my concerns and hope they respect me. If not, I'll deal with it.

The only time I've ever been really upset was going into our neighbors to the north - I just happened to be crossing over when the border guards were having a labor dispute - nothing like being told to get out and come into the building to be questioned...by automatic rifle toting guards not happy about their lot. Once you leave US soil (as you have by the time you get to them asking you anything) it's too late to go back (they let me know this). So I had visions of being stuck in Canada forever! They never once cared to look in the vehicle (I could see out to where I parked it), but asked me all sorts of questions about my past. I knew that they have access to our criminal database, so I didn't hide that I had been arrested (cited and released) a couple times in my late teens for kid stuff (trespass, open container) - which seemed to make them a bit more at ease with me (maybe entertained?). And when coming back into the US later that day, the US guard joked with me about the whole thing after I told him what happened - and he said I did the right thing about fessing up about things long past...best not to lie and get caught doing so because then everything you say becomes suspect. Hopefully that event also steers me should I get stopped while traveling across this great country - although I don't know that local or state agencies have the same high level of access to records, I think it best not to lie about anything, while not volunteering anything more than direct responses to questions.

Just my suggestions on how to behave should this happen to you...and again, great thread! And great posters, even I don't agree with everyone - it's nice to see such passionate responses!
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