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Old 02-23-2015, 06:49 AM   #15
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If you have nothing to hide - what's the big deal? Let them search!!!!!!! Do you have to like it? No of course not, but unless you are hiding something .... nothing to worry about except some lost travel time.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:53 AM   #16
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One could argue that leaving Colorado is probable cause

However, I don't agree to the "If you have nothing to hide" mentality. You may think you have nothing, but open container laws in some states may get you if there's an open wine bottle in the fridge.

Law abiding citizens in a free country should not have to consent to a random search.
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Old 02-23-2015, 08:33 AM   #17
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If you have nothing to hide - what's the big deal? Let them search!!!!!!! Do you have to like it? No of course not, but unless you are hiding something .... nothing to worry about except some lost travel time.
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, you NEVER EVER consent to any search no matter why they say they want to search. Once you consent you loose all of your 4th amendment rights.

If they ask you say "With All Due Respect, I Do Not Consent to a Search. Am I Free to Go?". If they keep asking you keep repeating that line. If they have real probable cause they will detain you and get a warrant.

However if they won't answer your question about being detained you can bet your bottom dollar they have no probable cause and are trying to trick you into giving consent. If after a few times repeating the same statement then you need to ask for your lawyer. Note I said "Your Lawyer" and not a lawyer. Always keep the number of your lawyer with you.

Although you may think you have nothing to hide what if you put your medications in a daily reminder pack and some of them are restricted drugs. You're technically in violation of federal drug laws. Now your being arrested on a drug charge.

One last things, never answer questions other than your name. Since your driving a vehicle you're required to show your ID and insurance but nothing else.

As stated before record your interactions with the police for both your and their protection and never turn the camera off no matter how much they want you to. Recording the police is totally legal and has been upheld by SCOTUS.
Bottom like is not that your hiding anything, you're protecting your rights.

None if this is legal advice just my take on the subject.
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Old 02-23-2015, 08:49 AM   #18
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I read that if you give permission to search then the police can look for any violations they can find. If you don't give permission and they get a warrant they can only cite you for violations listed on the warrant. A warrant limits their search.

I don't think I'm violating any laws but in a unlimited search who knows what the police might find.
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Old 02-23-2015, 09:26 AM   #19
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WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, you NEVER EVER consent to any search no matter why they say they want to search. Once you consent you loose all of your 4th amendment rights.

If they ask you say "With All Due Respect, I Do Not Consent to a Search. Am I Free to Go?". If they keep asking you keep repeating that line. If they have real probable cause they will detain you and get a warrant.

However if they won't answer your question about being detained you can bet your bottom dollar they have no probable cause and are trying to trick you into giving consent. If after a few times repeating the same statement then you need to ask for your lawyer. Note I said "Your Lawyer" and not a lawyer. Always keep the number of your lawyer with you.

Although you may think you have nothing to hide what if you put your medications in a daily reminder pack and some of them are restricted drugs. You're technically in violation of federal drug laws. Now your being arrested on a drug charge.

One last things, never answer questions other than your name. Since your driving a vehicle you're required to show your ID and insurance but nothing else.

As stated before record your interactions with the police for both your and their protection and never turn the camera off no matter how much they want you to. Recording the police is totally legal and has been upheld by SCOTUS.
Bottom like is not that your hiding anything, you're protecting your rights.

None if this is legal advice just my take on the subject.
If you have the time to fool around spouting legalese to a LEO, for sure they will find something including spending a whole bunch of their time not to mention yours - and of course that's your prerogative to play their games. Agree, they will do a cursory search, disagree and your world of hurt will grow exponentially at each protesting utterance. Unfortunately, our government has shredded the Constitution which we thought protected us from illegal search and seizure and we are no longer as free to protest as we did not too many years ago. (Mod Edit).

But, if you insist, I'll drive right by as you are waving your hands in the air protesting your 'rights' and if I'm stopped, will then be pulling right by you after my discussion with the law while you are still making noises. My time is more valuable then arguing with a cop.
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:01 AM   #20
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If you have nothing to hide - what's the big deal? Let them search!!!!!!! Do you have to like it? No of course not, but unless you are hiding something .... nothing to worry about except some lost travel time.
Sorry, that dog won't hunt. When you allow your rights to be infringed, the infringement progresses. It does not matter if I have nothing to hide, it matters that the 4th amendment says I have the right to privacy and the right against illegal searches of my person or property.

If we allow our rights to be infringed upon without question we endanger they entire notion of liberty and the constitution. The courts have long ruled on precedent, which in and of itself is ridiculous when you look at Korematsu v. United States as just one example, and under this mentality once you allow something to happen without question you have no standing to protest it. If we follow precedent then it's OK to lock up one group of folks just because they belong to that group. BTW, it was the "Great FDR" that did that.

One example being that if you allow a path to be walked through your property long enough you can no longer block access. Or if you allow your neighbors fence to be on your property long enough they get to keep that fenced in land. I have seen both of these stand up in court affecting people I know.

If we take the stance "If you have nothing to hide" where does it stop? Do we allow the police to knock on our doors and enter at will day in and day out? They are already doing this with mandatory roadside stop and searches and the courts are upholding them despite it being a violation of the 4th amendment using the argument that driving is a privilege and that you have no right to privacy while in public. This goes against the very intent of the amendment in the first place. It doesn't say unless you're outdoors or on horseback or in you buggy.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

George Mason wrote in the Virginia Declaration of Rights that general search warrants were “grievous and oppressive and ought not to be granted.” It was from the Virginia Declaration of Rights that many of our "Bill of Rights" were adopted.

When you allow it to be infringed it will erode to nothing. When good people make it routine for officers to search them or their property without question, officers begin to think this is THEIR right to do so because they want to. When someone like me says no that officer then becomes hostile as if he is the one being violated.

This is not said to paint every member of law enforcement with the same brush, but there are plenty this certainly applies to. There should be ZERO officers that behave this way. Just question an officer about something he says is the law when you know full well it isn't. They make up a lot of stuff to suit the situation, I've seen it, I've experienced it as well as the wrath that comes from questioning them. They can't possibly know every letter of every law on the books. No one can. There are just too many of them.

ALWAYS stand your ground and protect your rights. If you don't you surrender them for us all. Just take a look at this congressman who says that fighting for the Constitution is a losing battle. Both of the ladies in the video are personal friends of mine whom I have worked with for the last 6 years defending our rights.

Note to moderators: This post is not about politics, it's about the law and the rights we all have as citizens no matter the party or status.
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:23 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon View Post
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, you NEVER EVER consent to any search no matter why they say they want to search. Once you consent you loose all of your 4th amendment rights.

If they ask you say "With All Due Respect, I Do Not Consent to a Search. Am I Free to Go?". If they keep asking you keep repeating that line. If they have real probable cause they will detain you and get a warrant.

However if they won't answer your question about being detained you can bet your bottom dollar they have no probable cause and are trying to trick you into giving consent. If after a few times repeating the same statement then you need to ask for your lawyer. Note I said "Your Lawyer" and not a lawyer. Always keep the number of your lawyer with you.

Although you may think you have nothing to hide what if you put your medications in a daily reminder pack and some of them are restricted drugs. You're technically in violation of federal drug laws. Now your being arrested on a drug charge.

One last things, never answer questions other than your name. Since your driving a vehicle you're required to show your ID and insurance but nothing else.

As stated before record your interactions with the police for both your and their protection and never turn the camera off no matter how much they want you to. Recording the police is totally legal and has been upheld by SCOTUS.
Bottom like is not that your hiding anything, you're protecting your rights.

None if this is legal advice just my take on the subject.
Agree, agree, agree.

Permitting an unwarranted search may not end well.

Cash can be seized

Do you know how the "new to you" MH was used by PO? A little trace of coke or marijuana in a cabinet?

I do not consent. Am I free to go. Repeat until the tires are rolling...


DO NOT AGREE.
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:45 AM   #22
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For the record, there is a big controversy (last I heard, it was being taken to the federal courts; Nebraska against Colorado) concerning Colorado legalizing the sale of federally illegal drugs, marijuana. I haven't read the legal gist of the complaint, but it revolves around the marijuana crossing the border into Nebraska. Nebraska wants to force the enforcement of the federal law and the termination of the sale of the drug. OP doesn't say whether it was CSHP or Neb HP.

In another social media environment, my suggestion was NE set up border inspections. After all, if you don't want it in, you can confiscate, arrest, impound...all while creating a jobs program for Western NE. JMHO

Now the tough part...free travel and trade between states. Inspection stations can and have been in place for some time (i.e. CA and produce, western states and firewood (pine beetle) and water borne critters on boats). These are not federally-controlled problems. Drugs are. So, it would seem there is a legal base for Nebraska to sue CO to control the flow of drugs out of their state, and for the feds to stop the sale of the drug. And for what it is worth, the above is not a political statement; my preference would be for total decriminalization of marijuana...simply because we have other better things to put people in prison for and pay for their stay. Again, JMHO
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:31 AM   #23
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Have been through ca border check points and they are needed.

Someone bringing in a box of fruit from some snack stand in texas could bring in a pest that could cost millions in damage.

History has records to back it up...medfly is one and phsilid from florida is current one.

They as if you have any fruit and you state if you do and hand them what yiu have if on the wanted list.

If leo asks for permission to search you ask why.

You state you do not have any of what he is looking for and would rather they not enter.

You need no reason but you could state your passenger has measles...but you could have friendly conversation about the scenery in his jurisdiction or anything other than your mh so they reaize you are not a drug smuggler.

They may realise you can take more of their time and they will need to be back on duty soon...if asked again simply teturb with why and talk friendly. ..

Being combative will not be in your best interests as there is always a non-working light or something.

A "circle check" is used on jerks to find something to cite like non working bulb to a worn out wiper blade
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:39 AM   #24
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Although I have never really had this experience, I think I would be inclined to ask the officer first if he would provide some rational for wanting to search. There could be some reasonable explanation and I would want to give at least the opportunity to an LEO to explain why there might be a good reason to search (report of a MH carrying an abducted child or what have you).

Here is a question for all you legal eagles. Is it possible to give limited consent? If they are looking for something specific, can you consent to a search for that particular reason or is it strictly a matter of carte blanche.
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:44 AM   #25
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Although I have never really had this experience, I think I would be inclined to ask the officer first if he would provide some rational for wanting to search. There could be some reasonable explanation and I would want to give at least the opportunity to an LEO to explain why there might be a good reason to search (report of a MH carrying an abducted child or what have you).

Here is a question for all you legal eagles. Is it possible to give limited consent? If they are looking for something specific, can you consent to a search for that particular reason or is it strictly a matter of carte blanche.
That is why warrants have a list of items they can search for and where they can search for them. Without that limited consent in writing the door is wide open.

I do agree with another post that says be polite when talking with the law enforcement folks. But one still needs to be firm.
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:44 AM   #26
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If they ask they have no probable cause to search. If you grant permission it is legal for them to search and use anything against you. Refusing a search is NOT grounds for a search. LEO's know that and if the search is illegal/no PC and you do not give permission then anything found will be thrown out of court. Never consent! Jim.
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Old 02-23-2015, 11:47 AM   #27
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Polite works wonders

If leo is non relenting then ask for the watch commander to assist.

Normally he will be too busy to come out unless there is good reason and that would be it.
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Old 02-23-2015, 12:19 PM   #28
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I guess it would depend on what type of mood I was in, what mood the LEO was in and how much of a hurry I was in. The answer to a "may I inspect" request is always no. I agree with videoing any interaction nowadays, and if the officer had some reasonable suspicion or probable cause, I'd probably make him or her obtain a search warrant. Again, with me it all depends on attitude and disruption to my plans. Since I'm retired I can afford to wait out a stop, too. Our freedoms are being whittled away bit by bit and even though I still respect the police I find it more difficult every day to become a sheeple.
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