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Old 06-27-2015, 12:04 AM   #281
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Know your rights. An officer may not stop you unless he/she has a legal reason. With that being said, Please comply with the directions of the officer. You can always file a complaint with the department later, or even a civil rights lawsuit.

Should you get stopped and it is for a legal reason (tail light, brake light not working etc etc) and the officer asks you if he can search your vehicle, just say no.

The officer now has a decision to make: A) search your vehicle illegally, which anything he/she finds will be inadmisable in court. or B) detain you longer and obtain a search warrant. or C) have you on your merry way.

C will most likely be the officers decision. Unless he/she can articulate any other reason for the search.

Please remember this, the officer is in charge at this moment. You may not think he has a legal right to stop you (and he/she may not) but he/she is in charge for that moment in time.

There are good officers who do good police work and there are officers who do poor police work. Don't make a situation worse by being a "road side attorney" with an officer doing poor police work. Let the officer be in charge and file a complaint later.

I hope this helps, LEO
Actually the supreme court ruled in May 2015 that option B is not a legal option. If a police officer stops you for a routine violation such as tail light out for instance. They are not allowed to detain you while they obtain a search warrant. They are to give you your ticket or warning or whatever and allow you to be on your way.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...-9972_p8k0.pdf
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Old 06-27-2015, 12:23 AM   #282
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Actually the supreme court ruled in May 2015 that option B is not a legal option. If a police officer stops you for a routine violation such as tail light out for instance. They are not allowed to detain you while they obtain a search warrant. They are to give you your ticket or warning or whatever and allow you to be on your way.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...-9972_p8k0.pdf
It goes so far as they can't even hold you for a few minutes more to call a K9 for a walk around sniff.

This doesn't stop the bad cops lieing that they smelled something but if they come up with nothing they leave themselves open for a civil rights complaint.
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Old 06-27-2015, 01:35 AM   #283
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Colorado as with Washington State have legalized recreational pot. I've read about folks coming into Washington, buying pot and taking it out of state for use, or resale. State Police are randomly searching likely vehicles for contraband. The checking of all motorhomes seems a bit bogus to me, but the pot searches are for real.

As to what is legal, or not I haven't a clue. I voted against the law and knew there would be problems. A motorhome would be able to carry quite a bit of "recreational" pot that's for sure.
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:12 AM   #284
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I think it was Idaho that was profiling cars from Colorado, pulling them over and searching them. They got slapped down hard on a civil rights lawsuit. I think that it's slowed downed searches but not totally stopped them.
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:14 AM   #285
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As discussed earlier in this thread. If there are two cops or even one cop that has a drug dog with them that might be legal. The supreme court decision discusses making you wait. I personally am not going to allow them to search my vehicle if they just stop me for no reason just a manufactured excuse. Police officers have a job to do and that job does not include harassing everyone just to catch a few.
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Old 06-27-2015, 01:03 PM   #286
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As usual.....a bunch of bad info, especially from "gemini5362"....you misinterpreted the Supreme Court decision. The decision was about dog searches and making someone wait for a dog to arrive! Nothing was said about having enough probable cause, with information gathered at the scene, to seek a search warrant....two different things.

I've watched this post run for months with all the critics of law enforcement and kept quiet. It's so FUNNY to see all of the tough guys here, from behind their computer screens, telling everyone how they would deal with a traffic stop. I guarantee that 99% of you would fold like a deck of cards when stopped. For those of you who say they know their rights, you haven't a clue. Laws about search and seizure change daily and have to be studied every month to stay abreast.

As is the problem with this country, follow the directions of law enforcement and then fight your case in court. If you want to get rid of a cop not doing his job properly, allow him/her to do their job and then be found wrong in court. Believe it or not, good cops don't want to work with dirty cops.

Lastly......my favorite, was the guy who screamed the loudest about knowing his rights....just before the handcuffs were applied! They were also the biggest knuckleheads!
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:38 PM   #287
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As usual.....a bunch of bad info, especially from "gemini5362"....you misinterpreted the Supreme Court decision. The decision was about dog searches and making someone wait for a dog to arrive! Nothing was said about having enough probable cause, with information gathered at the scene, to seek a search warrant....two different things.
Correct but it's not only dogs it's that they can't hold you once the reason for the stop has been completed, which has to be done in a reasonable period of time, for basically any reason. Once you sign that ticket you are free to go. If you stick around on your own and another officer arrives with a dog and you stick around and let them walk the dog around your car that on you.

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I've watched this post run for months with all the critics of law enforcement and kept quiet. It's so FUNNY to see all of the tough guys here, from behind their computer screens, telling everyone how they would deal with a traffic stop. I guarantee that 99% of you would fold like a deck of cards when stopped. For those of you who say they know their rights, you haven't a clue. Laws about search and seizure change daily and have to be studied every month to stay abreast.
I agree that many might. For me I'll be reasonable.
  • If they ask to search the answer is "NO", it's just that simple. If you say "YES" you've lost all rights after that.
  • If they ask for ID, insurance and registration when driving then "YES" I will comply as I agreed to that when I got my license.
  • If I'm a passenger and they ask for ID I will again say "NO" since I'm not required to do so except for a very few states that require it and then I'll only give them by name and DOB not my license.
  • If they want me to exit the car "YES" I will comply but I'll lock it as I exit.
  • At Internal border checkpoints I will answer one question "Are you a US citizen?" to which I'll answer "YES". Even SCOTUS has said I don't have to answer any but I figure that one question is reasonable. Since SCOTUS has ruled that a US citizen is not required to produce any identification I'll politely refuse.
  • I'll never answer any questions that can in anyway be used against me. Heck even SCOTUS has said that you shouldn't so that's what I'll do.

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As is the problem with this country, follow the directions of law enforcement and then fight your case in court. If you want to get rid of a cop not doing his job properly, allow him/her to do their job and then be found wrong in court. Believe it or not, good cops don't want to work with dirty cops.
I agree to a point but only to a point. We both know that 99.95% of the time NOTHING happens. I will do what's legally required and if I'm sure they are going past the law I will at least ask for a supervisor. After that everything would be under protest and the only thing I will say are the magic words, "Am I being detained", "Am I free to go" and if needed "I want a lawyer".

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Lastly......my favorite, was the guy who screamed the loudest about knowing his rights....just before the handcuffs were applied! They were also the biggest knuckleheads!
I'll follow the law and then shutup.
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:52 PM   #288
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"At Internal border checkpoints I will answer one question "Are you a US citizen?" to which I'll answer "YES". Even SCOTUS has said I don't have to answer any but I figure that one question is reasonable. Since SCOTUS has ruled that a US citizen is not required to produce any identification I'll politely refuse."
Um.....passport?
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Old 06-27-2015, 04:29 PM   #289
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Timon:
"At Internal border checkpoints I will answer one question "Are you a US citizen?" to which I'll answer "YES". Even SCOTUS has said I don't have to answer any but I figure that one question is reasonable. Since SCOTUS has ruled that a US citizen is not required to produce any identification I'll politely refuse."
Um.....passport?

We came through the internal border checkpoint at Falfurrias, TX on US281 back in the spring. Not much traffic when we passed through. The office who stepped up to our window was very professional. His only question was, "are you two the only passengers?". I answered yes. As this was happening a drug dog handler and his dog were walking down the length of the coach & toad. The officer at my window looked to his right at the handler and simply said drive safely and have a nice day. I said "officer, thanks for your service". He replied, "it's an honor sir."

End of a very anticlimactic event.


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Old 06-27-2015, 07:24 PM   #290
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Timon:
"At Internal border checkpoints I will answer one question "Are you a US citizen?" to which I'll answer "YES". Even SCOTUS has said I don't have to answer any but I figure that one question is reasonable. Since SCOTUS has ruled that a US citizen is not required to produce any identification I'll politely refuse."
Um.....passport?
US citizens are not required to cary any identification documents inside of the US and that includes a passport. Even if I had a passport I'm not required to present it except when crossing the primary boarder station at the border.
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We came through the internal border checkpoint at Falfurrias, TX on US281 back in the spring. Not much traffic when we passed through. The office who stepped up to our window was very professional. His only question was, "are you two the only passengers?". I answered yes. As this was happening a drug dog handler and his dog were walking down the length of the coach & toad. The officer at my window looked to his right at the handler and simply said drive safely and have a nice day. I said "officer, thanks for your service". He replied, "it's an honor sir."

End of a very anticlimactic event.
I've never had a problem with any of the internal border crossing myself but then I've only been through two of them and that's the one on Interstate 5 from San Diego to Los Angeles and the other on I15 in Temecula. I used to go through the one on I15 all the time but that was 30+ years ago. Still I've seen too many news videos where agents ask all sorts of questions none of which are the magic "Are you a US citizen" and when someone doesn't want to answer or will not present ID, both of which is their legal right as defined by SCOTUS, are given the third degree and held for long periods of time.

Basically all I'm saying is that I want them to follow the law and not make things up as they go along and the same goes for law enforcement. Is that really asking too much?

Hopefully no one is taking this as a political discussion, at least I don't, I see it as something that can happen to anyone traveling in the US.
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Old 06-27-2015, 07:37 PM   #291
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Coach searched

Timon "US citizens are not required to cary any identification documents inside of the US and that includes a passport. Even if I had a passport I'm not required to present it except when crossing the primary boarder station at the border.
Ahh. Internal borders. I thought otherwise. Never a trouble at those checkpoints, and they are not just internal (state) borders, there are many that are spread out goodly distances from US or state borders. AZ has multi in-state checkpoints.
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:30 PM   #292
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I will be leaving AZ for my semi-annual 3800 mile round trip to IN in a week, and based on past experiences (see post #72), I fully anticipate one or more highway patrol stops on this upcoming vacation.

Based on the information that I have absorbed from the past 291 posts on this subject, I have established that I need to (1) be polite and respectful, (2) do not engage in unnecessary conversation (i.e. fishing expeditions), and finally (3) do not consent to a search of my RV. All 3 of these work for me. I have also determined that it is probably not a great idea to step out of my rig holding an i-pad or camera in record mode in front of me, as that creates an adversarial position. I was going to purchase a dash cam, but it would do little good if the conversation was taking place curbside or to the rear of the motorhome.

The question that is still unanswered (and forgive me if I missed it) is what is needed for a non-consensual search of your RV? A search warrant? Probable cause? Reasonable suspicion? I've figured out from these posts that if a dog "alerts", that is considered probably cause, but is a search warrant still needed?

I've had nothing to hide for 64 years, but resent the fact that I no longer look forward to my retirement travels the way I had anticipated.
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:15 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
As usual.....a bunch of bad info, especially from "gemini5362"....you misinterpreted the Supreme Court decision. The decision was about dog searches and making someone wait for a dog to arrive! Nothing was said about having enough probable cause, with information gathered at the scene, to seek a search warrant....two different things.

I've watched this post run for months with all the critics of law enforcement and kept quiet. It's so FUNNY to see all of the tough guys here, from behind their computer screens, telling everyone how they would deal with a traffic stop. I guarantee that 99% of you would fold like a deck of cards when stopped. For those of you who say they know their rights, you haven't a clue. Laws about search and seizure change daily and have to be studied every month to stay abreast.

As is the problem with this country, follow the directions of law enforcement and then fight your case in court. If you want to get rid of a cop not doing his job properly, allow him/her to do their job and then be found wrong in court. Believe it or not, good cops don't want to work with dirty cops.

Lastly......my favorite, was the guy who screamed the loudest about knowing his rights....just before the handcuffs were applied! They were also the biggest knuckleheads!
Dutch Star Don it seems like you must have been a police officer at one time. It has been my experience that a lot of police officers do not actually know the law they just think they do. Your comments here are a perfect example of that. The USSC (United States Supreme Court) decision is actually about time. The dog sniff was the circumstances but if you can read and understand the decision you will see it is about how long the driver can be detained. It is actually about a 4th amendment violation. The decision addresses detaining the driver longer than is required to deal with the infraction the driver was stopped for. In this case the officer detained the driver in order to have a dog come and sniff the car. This decision would also be citable if a driver was detained while a search warrant was obtained unless the officer had outside circumstances that broadened the scope of the stop for something outside of the infraction the driver was originally stopped for.

I resent your fold like a deck of cards remark. I have been stopped several times if the officer is polite I am polite. If the officer is not polite I answer the questions but grudgingly and my tone is very obvious. I used to get off work at midnight it was very common on a friday night when driving home from work to be stopped for various made up infractions so the police officer could lean in the car and smell my breath to see if i had been drinking and then he would shine his light around in my car to see if he could find any empty alcohol containers or anything else that was not allowed. I followed his orders because he has a gun and we were alone in the middle of the night. If an officer during one of these stops would have been anything but polite I would have been on the phone the next day to his boss. I was stopped once on my motorcycle for speeding. I handed the officer my drivers license and my military ID because the drivers license had an expiration date that had passed. The officer told me my license had expired and he was going to impound my bike because i was driving on an expired license. I explained that in Arkansas as long as you were on active duty your license did not expire until one month after you were off of active duty. The officer did not believe that and was going to impound my bike. I told him that was not going to happen. It was my only transportation and I had to have it to attend the navy school I was going to. He finally relented and gave me a ticket for speeding and an expired license. I paid the speeding ticket because i was and the judge dismissed the expired license because it wasn't expired. Or I could talk about the Jenks, Oklahoma officer who stopped me because I did not have a license plate on my new car. I showed him my sales contract and told him I could not get a plate until the manufacturer sent me the paperwork that was used to issue a license plate. The officer told me I had to have a paper temporary license plate. I explained to him that Arkansas did not use temporary plates. He informed me that because I was driving in OKlahoma that i had to follow Oklahoma laws and get a temporary plate. ( I was visiting relatives in that state) Once again I explained that I could not get one because Arkasnas did not issue them. His response to that was I had to go to a DMV office in Oklahoma and have one issued to me if I was going to drive in Oklahoma. He was totally wrong but at no time did I fold like a deck of cards when i was stopped. I have been stopped other times for speeding and I am polite and I pay my fine because usually I am speeding when stopped. But I believe it is funny that you claim no one knows their rights. I know my rights very well. I also refute your claim that laws about search and seisure change daily. That is not correct those laws are based on the 4th amendment to the constitution which has not changed to my knowledge. I believe that there are officers who make their own interpretation of laws and this thread seems to be about those officers in states surrounding colorado. As the supreme court decisions shows just because the officer interpreted the law in his own manner does not make him right.

I believe there are a lot of Law Enforcement Officers who are courteous and just want to do the best job they can. But there are a good number of officers who have no business in the job and they want to just make up interpretations of the law to suit their desires.
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:42 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by terryl View Post
I will be leaving AZ for my semi-annual 3800 mile round trip to IN in a week, and based on past experiences (see post #72), I fully anticipate one or more highway patrol stops on this upcoming vacation.

Based on the information that I have absorbed from the past 291 posts on this subject, I have established that I need to (1) be polite and respectful, (2) do not engage in unnecessary conversation (i.e. fishing expeditions), and finally (3) do not consent to a search of my RV. All 3 of these work for me. I have also determined that it is probably not a great idea to step out of my rig holding an i-pad or camera in record mode in front of me, as that creates an adversarial position. I was going to purchase a dash cam, but it would do little good if the conversation was taking place curbside or to the rear of the motorhome.

The question that is still unanswered (and forgive me if I missed it) is what is needed for a non-consensual search of your RV? A search warrant? Probable cause? Reasonable suspicion? I've figured out from these posts that if a dog "alerts", that is considered probably cause, but is a search warrant still needed?

I've had nothing to hide for 64 years, but resent the fact that I no longer look forward to my retirement travels the way I had anticipated.
Actually i think that the only way a police officer can make a non consentual search is if they see an item that is contraband in plain site
here is an interesting URL. https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Re...anUse-702.aspx

You might also look at this page Consent, Exigent Circumstances, and Warrantless Home Entry

They go into warrantless searches and explain the conditions more fully
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