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Old 07-12-2015, 06:48 AM   #337
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Bullies with badges !
Sort of but I think it's even worse. The concept of a police force that works to help and protect the citizenry is often forgotten. It is a "top down" thing. Low on cash? Why not up the ticket revenue by increasing the forfeitures. Not enough real crime. Lets stop travelers and confiscate cash. They won't come all the way back and hire an expensive lawyer. The attitude needs to change from the top down. I really miss the days when Police were friends and could be trusted to do the right thing. This would have been around the Clinton era. If you go back far enough things were bad. It seems to run in cycles.
Police seizures of cash rise, but innocent motorists often caught in seizure net | WJLA.com
Controversies - Feds Tell Nation’s Cops to Stop Illegally Seizing Motorists’ Property…But Only if they Want To - AllGov - News
I stopped traveling for a while after my experience. Then I got pissed and told myself whatever happens happens I'm not staying home just because of a few bad guys.
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:44 PM   #338
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The problem is that the LEOs will NEVER let you move around so you can video the external K9 search and likewise there is no way in hell you can be videoing inside during a search.
What does the law say when you're stopped?

Can you video tape any conversation with the LEO using a cell phone... either you doing the recording or someone you're with doing the recording?

If the LEO searches the outside of your coach, with or without a dog, can you video tape that?

What are your rights in a situation like this? Inquiring minds wanna know.
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Old 07-17-2015, 02:05 AM   #339
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What does the law say when you're stopped?

Can you video tape any conversation with the LEO using a cell phone... either you doing the recording or someone you're with doing the recording?

If the LEO searches the outside of your coach, with or without a dog, can you video tape that?

What are your rights in a situation like this? Inquiring minds wanna know.
Yes...you can videotape everything and anything they do with you. You don't need to do it covertly either, but, I would only suggest you do it respectfully.
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Old 07-17-2015, 06:46 AM   #340
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This has been an interesting thread. Lot's of interesting scenarios, lot's pseudo-legal advice ... lot's of Monday morning quarterbacking.

I think many of the post advocating being assertive of your rights during a stop are more interweb badassadry than sound advice. From everything I've experienced, seen and read - regardless of whether it's right, wrong or indifferent, we are at the mercy of LEO's on the scene. For that brief time of the stop - the LEO involved are judge, jury and (apparently sometimes) executioner. It's the benevolence of the officers involved that ultimately determines how a traffic stop plays out.

Regardless of whether you know you're 100% legal and that the LEOs are in fact out of line - my gut feel is that being as calm, collected, rational and docile (while doing you best to preserve your rights) are likely to be the most effective approach to evoking the benevolent outcome you're hoping for.
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Old 07-17-2015, 12:14 PM   #341
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Regardless of whether you know you're 100% legal and that the LEOs are in fact out of line - my gut feel is that being as calm, collected, rational and docile (while doing you best to preserve your rights) are likely to be the most effective approach to evoking the benevolent outcome you're hoping for.

This approach will always work for the best outcome.
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Old 07-17-2015, 01:13 PM   #342
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I learned at 17 (the hard way) what Spacenorman just said is true. It has served me well over the years.
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Old 07-17-2015, 02:18 PM   #343
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This has been an interesting thread. Lot's of interesting scenarios, lot's pseudo-legal advice ... lot's of Monday morning quarterbacking.

I think many of the post advocating being assertive of your rights during a stop are more interweb badassadry than sound advice. From everything I've experienced, seen and read - regardless of whether it's right, wrong or indifferent, we are at the mercy of LEO's on the scene. For that brief time of the stop - the LEO involved are judge, jury and (apparently sometimes) executioner. It's the benevolence of the officers involved that ultimately determines how a traffic stop plays out.

Regardless of whether you know you're 100% legal and that the LEOs are in fact out of line - my gut feel is that being as calm, collected, rational and docile (while doing you best to preserve your rights) are likely to be the most effective approach to evoking the benevolent outcome you're hoping for.
There are times in life when you have to swallow your pride and go along for the ride when others have the authority in a situation. Going against the grain is not going to work out well should you decide to take that approach. Regardless of personal feelings, LEO's should be treated with the utmost respect. It is in our best interest.
However, I am not sure I would always cooperate with a search of my vehicle or motorhome. If they want to get a warrant, go get it. Lots of unseen things can go on during a motorhome search. And some of those things may work out very poorly for us.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:27 AM   #344
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There are times in life when you have to swallow your pride and go along for the ride when others have the authority in a situation. Going against the grain is not going to work out well should you decide to take that approach. Regardless of personal feelings, LEO's should be treated with the utmost respect. It is in our best interest.
However, I am not sure I would always cooperate with a search of my vehicle or motorhome. If they want to get a warrant, go get it. Lots of unseen things can go on during a motorhome search. And some of those things may work out very poorly for us.
We have reached a sad, sad point in our nation when we have to cower and be intimidated by the public servants whom society has trusted with guns. Instead of expecting them to save lives, we are terrified they may take ours with little or no reason. For them to be committing highway robbery on our roads would have been unthinkable just a few short years ago. It will not be easy to reverse this trend, but it must be done if we are to survive as a free nation. Taking the easy way out only by licking their boots only prolongs this disgusting situation. At least be firm and calm and know your rights when confronted.
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Old 07-18-2015, 03:19 AM   #345
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We have reached a sad, sad point in our nation when we have to cower and be intimidated by the public servants whom society has trusted with guns. Instead of expecting them to save lives, we are terrified they may take ours with little or no reason. For them to be committing highway robbery on our roads would have been unthinkable just a few short years ago. It will not be easy to reverse this trend, but it must be done if we are to survive as a free nation. Taking the easy way out only by licking their boots only prolongs this disgusting situation. At least be firm and calm and know your rights when confronted.
Cmon guys (and gals), lets stop all the hyperbole...its killing me. Some and again I say, some of you are getting wrapped up in hysterics about how bad cops are...how this is America and motorists shouldnt have to lick their boots, how they're taking lives with little or no reason...really??? you guys are killing me!

I wanna say Cops are normal everyday folks...just like you, but I cant. Were not just like you, though we try to be. We so desperately want to be, but we cant.

We go home at the end of the work day. We remove our body armor and lock the guns and ammo away from the kids. We (try) to help the kids with their homework. We take our shoes off and relax with our spouse with a glass of wine. We try our best to do all of that normal stuff while our heads are filled with the hours old memories of wrestling a mother out of a crime scene as she tries to go to the aid of her son who is lying on the sidewalk with the side of his head missing and brain tissue scattered about...the hours old memories of having to comfort a sweet 21 year girl who got separated from her girlfriends at a bar and just woke up in an alley with no pants on. How about the memory of a co-worker, with a new wife who, while trying to diffuse a domestic situation before his cover officer arrived, was shot in the neck and bled out before the ambulance arrived. I can go on and on with these situations...theyve all happened to me...thank God, not in the same night. That kind of stuff makes us different.

Some of the more subtle things we deal with daily is the lies and deceit from average everyday looking folks...like you. Guys who drive Corvettes, Buicks, dodge Caravans and nice shiny motorhomes. Were lied to all day long. We dont know if youre a retired Marine Gunny with scruples and principals of the pope, a Parolee transporting weapons for a coastal biker group or just an average tax paying, hardworking everyday joe...with a nervous speech impediment. We look for subtle signs and give-aways:

If I ask, Do you have any weapons or narcotics or anything illegal in your vehicle?
and your response is, Not that I know of You can bet we are gonna try every reasonable tactic we know to get to search that vehicle. Does that make us bad people...of course not! That is what we do for a living...its our job.

Now, no matter how many cops you read about who climb up fire escapes and save kids and cats from burning buildings, there will always be those who absolutely despise law enforcement, simply because of what we represent...state granted power. There are also some LEOs who let that state granted power go to their heads...they abuse that power. In my 20 plus years as a cop, I saw 2...one got fired and one quit before the hammer fell.


If stopped and asked to search...if you feel comfortable allowing it, (though you dont have to agree)...let them do it. But if you feel uncomfortable with it, say so and ask for your license back (if he/she appears to be done with it) and ask if you are free to leave. Trust me when I tell you this...that is the pivotal point where most intelligent officers have to decide how far theyre willing to take their hunch If they dont allow you to leave, ask for a supervisor, but I would caution you NOT to ask for a supervisor early on...it gives them way too much time to dig and maybe get a dog to the scene...while they wait for the supervisor that YOU asked for...get my point?
Look, its late and now I see Im just rambling. Im just trying to calm some of the hysterics and get you all thinking rationally again. There have been a lot of great points made in this thread.

Ill say this much though...the best way to appreciate LEOs in this country is to get a taste of how its done in Venezuela or Mexico...enough said on that.

Trust law enforcement...but dont be afraid to know and exercise your rights!
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Old 07-18-2015, 04:06 AM   #346
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Good job doughnut lover, and thank you for your service!
We got stopped by a young LEO, on rt. 36 in Mo. this April. He ask to see the reg. and the insurance card. I showed them to him, and ask why he stopped us? He said he ran the tags and it came back as a Chevy, and it clearly says Holiday Rambler on the MH! Then he said it does not say Chevy anywhere on it! Really?? I told him it was built on a Chevy chassis, and the builder was HR! His face turned red, he was clearly embarrassed, and handed my stuff back to me, smiled and said have a nice day! He learned something that day, and I hope it helps him in the future!
PS, we are reg. and lic. in Az. so no front plate, that was why he followed us from sitting in the median!
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Old 07-18-2015, 05:44 AM   #347
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"Trust law enforcement...but don’t be afraid to know and exercise your rights!"

Those are my feelings mostly. This is not a sad day and nobody is licking anyone's boots. I was raised to respect authority, and I believe that is the correct way to live as a rule. A few bad apples does not a rotten bunch make.
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Old 07-18-2015, 08:05 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by SpaceNorman View Post
This has been an interesting thread. Lot's of interesting scenarios, lot's pseudo-legal advice ... lot's of Monday morning quarterbacking.

I think many of the post advocating being assertive of your rights during a stop are more interweb badassadry than sound advice. From everything I've experienced, seen and read - regardless of whether it's right, wrong or indifferent, we are at the mercy of LEO's on the scene. For that brief time of the stop - the LEO involved are judge, jury and (apparently sometimes) executioner. It's the benevolence of the officers involved that ultimately determines how a traffic stop plays out.

Regardless of whether you know you're 100% legal and that the LEOs are in fact out of line - my gut feel is that being as calm, collected, rational and docile (while doing you best to preserve your rights) are likely to be the most effective approach to evoking the benevolent outcome you're hoping for.
That is how I look at it. Right or wrong. Don't piss them off.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:36 AM   #349
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If I ask, Do you have any weapons or narcotics or anything illegal in your vehicle? and your response is, Not that I know of You can bet we are gonna try every reasonable tactic we know to get to search that vehicle.
I hate to take this thread down yet another rabbit hole ... but I can't help but wonder why a "Not that I know of" response would illicit that response?

I'm an IT technerd by trade - where the devil lives in the details. In the world I live in - the tiny details matter a whole heap. A "checkmark" in Box "X" can completely change an outcome - so I've grown accustomed to being as thorough and accurate as I possibly can.

When I go to the doctor and they ask me if I'm allergic to any medications - my answer is always "None that I know of". Why? Because it's the truth - there are tons of medications that I haven't tried yet (thankfully!) and I don't know if I'm allergic to any of those.

Were I to be asked if there was anything illegal in my coach - I could easily hear myself saying "None that I know of" - for exactly that same reason. I've seen/read enough stories about people finding stuff hidden in their vehicles that they had no idea was there ... and I haven't been thru every nook and cranny of my coach. A "none that I know of" answer in the face of a search that would potentially examine places in my coach that I've never examined - would be my being completely honest - not me trying to be evasive.

From a LEO's perspective ... what will bring me more pain? Am I better off giving you a completely honest "None that I know of" - or a confident "No officer" and potentially dealing with the consequences of having "lied" to you if something is found deep in the bowels of my vehicle that I honestly didn't know was there?
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:47 AM   #350
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I wondered about the same thing. Of course none of us would have narcotics or drugs, but my concealed carry trainer suggested that we say "not that I know of" if asked if we had a weapon and did not have one. His reasoning was that if your spouse had left one under the seat, you did not want to be caught lying to the officer.
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