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Old 07-18-2015, 10:12 AM   #351
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Great article, Donut lover! Thank you for your service!
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Old 07-18-2015, 10:49 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by dan-nickie View Post
...Of course none of us would have narcotics or drugs....
I think that for many of us - you've have to revise this to read "...none of use would knowingly have narcotics or...." to be a technically accurate statement.

I know I can say with absolute certainty that there's no contraband in any of the readily accessible spaces (i.e., cupboards, drawers, closets, storage compartments, etc.) in my coach. BUT, my coach is a complex unit - with lots of nooks and crannies that I've never examined closely. I haven't removed every panel, haven't crawled into the storage bays to see what might be tucked on the inside of the frame rails, haven't crawled under the coach to see if anything has been concealed there.

Standing roadside, knowing that law enforcement is thinking about conducting a search that will examine places I've never looked - a "None that I know of" answer truly is full and accurate disclosure.
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Old 07-18-2015, 10:52 AM   #353
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Guardrail, we are from MO, we got stopped by a trooper in CO a few days ago. The trooper was a sergeant. He stopped us because we had no rear plate on our truck. Actually, have a personalized tag on the rear. In MO you only receive a front plate if you register 18,000 lbs or more. The combined weight goes on the truck. Whether you use a small utility trailer, large enclosed trailer, or camper you gets a trailer plate with no weight rating. The Sargeant stated he had never heard of such. In Colorado all motor vehicles get two plates. The jest is, I was polite and courteous, he went back to his cruiser and verified. He then came back and reiterated that he had never heard of a front plate only. I thanked him for doing what he does, we shook hands and he sent me on my way. I am a career firefighter, brought up him being a Sargeant because he obviously has been on the job with the state patrol for a while. It is difficult for Leo's to keep up with the laws of their respective jurisdiction, let alone, another.
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Old 07-18-2015, 12:06 PM   #354
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I too want to thank you, Donutlover for your your years of service and all the other people that have done service for our country. And I do agree there are more good honest LEO`s out there than there are not.
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:14 PM   #355
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I wondered about the same thing. Of course none of us would have narcotics or drugs, but my concealed carry trainer suggested that we say "not that I know of" if asked if we had a weapon and did not have one. His reasoning was that if your spouse had left one under the seat, you did not want to be caught lying to the officer.
Dan, forgive me for saying this, but, your Conceal Carry trainer is way off base in his reasoning. The simple solution is...you ask your spouse if she put a weapon under the seat or any place else for that matter...BEFORE you set out. You're not going to get caught lying to the officer...unless he gets into your RV to check and saying, "Not that I know of" is a sure way to get him in there. Bottom line...whether you lie to him or not, if he finds it and you have no right to have it, you're going to be arrested...period!
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:17 PM   #356
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BTW...thanks for the kind words Joe&Annett and Freebird

OK, here's one more War and Peace length article...hopefully this will ad clarity:

OK SpaceNorman and dan-nickie, let me try to drag this back out of the rabbit hole (at the risk of pulling it down a different hole)

As a police officer, my M.O. was to walk up to individuals on the street, after taking into consideration the area, time of day (or night) certain nervous gestures and/or actions of companions as I approached and my experience, I conduct what we call a consentual contact...(I ask if I could have a word with you...you either agree or you don’t...very legal.

During the contact, I will always ask, “Do you have any weapons or narcotics on you sir” Regardless of their answer, I will always follow up with, “Do you mind if I check”?
The answers I can expect are:

1---I have no drugs or weapons, you can check, ...be my guest.
2---I’ll be honest with you, I have (narcotics/weapons) in my (wherever)
3---Not that I know of..yeah, you can check.
4---I don’t have narcotics or weapons but I don’t want you going thru my stuff


Now, here’s some startling facts for you:

Answer # 1...probably less than 10 times in my entire career did I find contraband.
When we find it...suspect goes to jail.
Answer # 2...obviously 100% of the time we find contraband and when we do, the
suspect goes to jail.
Answer # 3...”NOT THAT I KNOW OF” response. Are you ready for this? 100% of the
time we find contraband and when we find it, the suspect goes to jail.
Answer # 4...Never find it ‘cause it’s not worth my career to push the envelope or risk
my career on 4th amendment violation based on a hunch.

Think about this guys...If you’re stopped at a border crossing and the officer asks you if you are bringing across anything illegal in your motorhome...for God sake guys, if you know you are not carrying anything illegal, say so. Don’t ASSUME the remote possibility that some covert drug dealer slipped a package under or in your coach during the night. Alluding to something so preposterous will GUARANTEE...let me say again...GUARANTEE a time consuming secondary inspection.

Sorry for the many words to make a simple point.

Don’t be so literal about your response...it’ll just make us wanna dig deeper simply ‘cause, “NOT THAT I KNOW OF” is NOT the customary response we would expect from someone who is not transporting narcotics or weapons.

Look at it this way...if somehow someone did slip contraband in your vehicle...and you didn’t know it...go back up and re read #3...the end result is you are going to jail anyway and you can try to convince the judge that some drug lord snuck into your RV while you guys were sleeping and planted all that contraband under your mattress...as you slept. Good luck with that.
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Old 07-18-2015, 02:01 PM   #357
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Donut Lover - Thank you for taking the time to respond. It's no surprise that worlds we each live in every day individually is a huge influence on how we respond when facing situations that are new to us. I appreciate you taking the time to share a bit of your world.

Conversely - in my world (IT nerd who spends most of his day troubleshooting complex communication issues ....) - it's rare that a week goes by that I don't find myself participating in problem determination meetings that involve numerous technical resources as well as members from multiple levels of management who are listening in. Invariably, somebody will ask directly "did we look at this ________?" (typically about something that would like never be scrutinized outside of a problem situation) - which is essentially analogous to your "Do you have any weapons or narcotics" question.

Similar to your description - there a handful of answers that I expect to hear:

1. Gosh, I never thought of that - I'll check into it!
2. Either a YES or a NO - along with a few details.
3. A quick "yes, nothing to worry about there" and no real detail
4. A response debating whether it was a relevant question in the first place.

In my world - Answers #1, #2 and #4 are all OK. It's answer #3 that sets off my spidey senses. Why? Because in my experience, that's the answer comes from somebody that's primarily concerned with looking like they're on top of things and not actually being on top of things.

When somebody tosses out that "quick yes" answer with no details - that's were I start digging first. Different worlds ... different views ... different hot buttons.

Thanks for sharing how things work in yours!
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Old 07-18-2015, 04:45 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by Donut lover View Post
The answers I can expect are:

1---I have no drugs or weapons, you can check, ...be my guest.
2---I’ll be honest with you, I have (narcotics/weapons) in my (wherever)
3---Not that I know of..yeah, you can check.
4---I don’t have narcotics or weapons but I don’t want you going thru my stuff


Answer # 4...Never find it ‘cause it’s not worth my career to push the envelope or risk my career on 4th amendment violation based on a hunch.
Thanks for sharing that experience.
#4 it is for me then from now on in the RV. No matter what I have on board!
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Old 07-18-2015, 04:58 PM   #359
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Dan, forgive me for saying this, but, your Conceal Carry trainer is way off base in his reasoning. The simple solution is...you ask your spouse if she put a weapon under the seat or any place else for that matter...BEFORE you set out. You're not going to get caught lying to the officer...unless he gets into your RV to check and saying, "Not that I know of" is a sure way to get him in there. Bottom line...whether you lie to him or not, if he finds it and you have no right to have it, you're going to be arrested...period!
Now that I think about it, I suppose my Conceal Carry Trainer and I were talking about a)after I had a valid CCW permit b)was in my home state/area and c)was legally carrying/transporting the weapon.

We were not discusssing RV travel, just in general. My wife may not even be with me but left her weapon in the car.

But I blame most stuff on her already and that really hasn't helped much.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:18 PM   #360
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Again I support the police but I've seen too many videos about people being pulled over for trumped up reasons. One of the most common, "you were weaving" when they were not. In almost every case the LEO wants to search your vehicle. The LEO basically lies to the person about how bad it's gong to be if they don't let them search when in truth the LEO knows they have absolutely no PC to search. To me that's a bad cop.

We we get our RV we just want to travel without worrying about some LEO pulling us over just because it's possible we may have something in our vehicle because some bad guys have done that in the past or because my home state allows recreational weed.

When we move from CA to most likely ID we'll likely get a CCW license. We'll not be carrying a handgun, way too many issues, in the RV but we'll likely be carrying a Shotgun.

I sure if a LEO runs the tags without even any reason for doing so the CCW will likely show up so they'll end up stoping us just because of that which is just plain crap.

Even if it doesn't show up then if we've been stopped, for a good reason or not, it will show up when they run the DL. So having done nothing you know they'll want to search, again that's crap.

Maybe I shouldn't believe everything I've viewed and read but even if only part of them are true it worries me.

Again, most LEO are good guys but there are too many bad ones giving police a bad name. True or not more and more of the public believe the police view most of the public as the bad guys and treats them that way. True or not more and more of the public feel that local police are there to keep the city coffers full and not to protect the public.

It's not a matter of truth but of perception and currently the perception of the police is not good. It's very sad that's the perception.
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Old 07-18-2015, 10:21 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by dan-nickie View Post
Thanks for sharing that experience.
#4 it is for me then from now on in the RV. No matter what I have on board!
Good answer!!!!
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Old 07-18-2015, 10:25 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceNorman View Post
Donut Lover - Thank you for taking the time to respond. It's no surprise that worlds we each live in every day individually is a huge influence on how we respond when facing situations that are new to us. I appreciate you taking the time to share a bit of your world.

Conversely - in my world (IT nerd who spends most of his day troubleshooting complex communication issues ....) - it's rare that a week goes by that I don't find myself participating in problem determination meetings that involve numerous technical resources as well as members from multiple levels of management who are listening in. Invariably, somebody will ask directly "did we look at this ________?" (typically about something that would like never be scrutinized outside of a problem situation) - which is essentially analogous to your "Do you have any weapons or narcotics" question.

Similar to your description - there a handful of answers that I expect to hear:

1. Gosh, I never thought of that - I'll check into it!
2. Either a YES or a NO - along with a few details.
3. A quick "yes, nothing to worry about there" and no real detail
4. A response debating whether it was a relevant question in the first place.

In my world - Answers #1, #2 and #4 are all OK. It's answer #3 that sets off my spidey senses. Why? Because in my experience, that's the answer comes from somebody that's primarily concerned with looking like they're on top of things and not actually being on top of things.

When somebody tosses out that "quick yes" answer with no details - that's were I start digging first. Different worlds ... different views ... different hot buttons.

Thanks for sharing how things work in yours!
Good analogy!
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Old 07-18-2015, 10:30 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by dan-nickie View Post
Now that I think about it, I suppose my Conceal Carry Trainer and I were talking about a)after I had a valid CCW permit b)was in my home state/area and c)was legally carrying/transporting the weapon.

We were not discusssing RV travel, just in general. My wife may not even be with me but left her weapon in the car.

But I blame most stuff on her already and that really hasn't helped much.
I'm with you 100% on the ineffectiveness of "spousal blaming"
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Old 07-18-2015, 11:05 PM   #364
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Again I support the police but I've seen too many videos about people being pulled over for trumped up reasons.

Timon...remember, you're watching a video posted by someone who SAID they were pulled over for trumped up reasons...and you believe them? If so based on what? 'cause they said it was trumped up????


One of the most common, "you were weaving" when they were not.

Again, you know for a FACT they weren't weaving? and you know that factually how...oh, because the video poster SAID so.

In almost every case the LEO wants to search your vehicle.

In almost every case? Really? If I stop someone for weaving, I never ask to search the vehicle...I simply ask them if they were drinking or overly tired.

The LEO basically lies to the person about how bad it's gong to be if they don't let them search when in truth the LEO knows they have absolutely no PC to search. To me that's a bad cop.

We we get our RV we just want to travel without worrying about some LEO pulling us over just because it's possible we may have something in our vehicle because some bad guys have done that in the past or because my home state allows recreational weed.

Timon, have you ever followed behind a weaving vehicle where the driver was totally stoned out of his mind...on weed? I have. It's not a pretty sight. and I assure you, every single one of them would swear on their mother's grave they weren't weaving...that the officer (me) lied about the PC for the stop.

When we move from CA to most likely ID we'll likely get a CCW license. We'll not be carrying a handgun, way too many issues, in the RV but we'll likely be carrying a Shotgun.

I sure if a LEO runs the tags without even any reason for doing so the CCW will likely show up so they'll end up stoping us just because of that which is just plain crap.


LEO do not...let me say this again...we DO NOT need a reason to run a plate on the road...for any reason whatsoever!!! And, when we do, no where does it come up showing the driver being CCW...you have got to get off of those weird anti-cop websites...wherever you are getting that info is the, "just plain crap" that you referred to.

Even if it doesn't show up then if we've been stopped, for a good reason or not, it will show up when they run the DL. So having done nothing you know they'll want to search, again that's crap.

Running a DL does not reveal a CCW...again, THAT'S crap

Maybe I shouldn't believe everything I've viewed and read but even if only part of them are true it worries me.

Now you're getting it!

Again, most LEO are good guys but there are too many bad ones giving police a bad name. True or not more and more of the public believe the police view most of the public as the bad guys and treats them that way. True or not more and more of the public feel that local police are there to keep the city coffers full and not to protect the public.

Timon...surely you don't believe that last line do you? I've had 4 shoulder surgeries, a 23 stitch, bone deep broken bottle slash to my arm, a crushed toe (after 2 surgeries..unrepairable) A ruptured vertebrae, a badly broken left thumb that required 3 surgeries, a titanium thumb bone replacement, the subsequent total removal of the thumb base joint and skin cancer (patrol)... none of which are a result of trying to keep the city coffers full...c'mon dude

It's not a matter of truth but of perception and currently the perception of the police is not good. It's very sad that's the perception.
Timon, if that's YOUR perception...well, I'm truly sorry to hear that.
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