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Old 02-27-2015, 10:57 AM   #57
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What would the general response be if you asked for a supervisor to be there while the LEO conducted his search?
I never had that request, but if they were available they would swing by.

Firebug is right, there must be probable cause and that requires way more than a hunch or a profile. Yes, any decent Officer profiles and I know it has become a media hit, but the truth is most ongoing repeat crimes have a profile....it has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with crime.

Legally a motorhome cannot be pulled over simply because it is a motorhome. If that happens the officer is just plain wrong, but I would guess he observed some type of traffic violation to facilitate the stop. We were not there, so speculating is kinda a waste of time.

As stated here, finding a traffic violation is not hard. Put yourself in an Officers shoes(ok, maybe not in this case the thread is about). You are an experienced Officer and your powers of observation tell you something is wrong with the vehicle ahead of you. The eyes pick up everything and send the info to the brain. The brain sifts through all that info and discards what it does not think is important to the function at hand. However, something in all that info triggers something in the subconscious arousing suspicion. The general public has no idea of how many real bad guys are caught just on these type of hunches. I have know some Officers that had an astounding 6th sense when it came to these things and they were just about 100% correct. This is where that traffic violation comes into play, it gets the Officer in close to talk to the driver and observe things that can't be seen from a patrol car.

But what about those times when the senses are wrong and you stop someone(for that traffic violation) that turns out to be a non criminal citizen? Once more info is gathered in that stop(no search involved) and those suspicions are now dismissed, the driver is free to go.

I have been wrong, and sent folks on their way after a short conversation. But I was right way more than wrong and traffic stops took felons off the streets. I hope some of you can see the other side of the coin.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:25 AM   #58
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On the other hand, maybe we can thank Breaking Bad for the newfound law enforcement interest in motorhomes
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Old 02-27-2015, 12:43 PM   #59
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Last year, we were traveling to Georgia and had already left Colorado, with the now dreaded green license plates as a target. We were stopped in Oklahoma for "weaving" on a very windy day, and when the Trooper asked if we were OK or just being blown around by the wind, I reminded him he was holding his Trooper hat on his head with both hands! He smiled, and then asked if anybody else was in the back of the moho, and I said no. He said "Are you sure?", so I invited him in and asked what type of sandwich he wanted. He grinned, and said that would not be necessary. He asked me to get my license and to join him in his cruiser.

He ran the license, and gave me a warning for "weaving". I asked him what he was really looking for, and he said he was just making sure I was not impaired. He also stated there is a big problem with drugs and human trafficking along the interstates. He then asked me why we were not towing a vehicle behind our moho. I told him our family in Georgia had a spare Jeep for us to use, and he simply said next time it would be better for us to tow our Jeep from Colorado. Not sure what that meant, but I assume it had to do with whatever he was profiling. He also told me the only reason he issued a warning receipt was for me to present it to any future LEO's I may be stopped by in Oklahoma, and it would prevent a similar occurrence.

After getting back on the interstate, we did see a lot of LEO's at the next few exits and overpasses, but none stopped us again. I did not like the feeling of being profiled, it really opened my eyes to that situation. Maybe that was the "life experience" I needed the most, because it was the one that bothered me the most.

So, after reading all of the posts on this thread, along with the other thread concerning property forfeiture, I am now thinking about any problems I had with our traffic stop. The Trooper had a reason to stop me, so beware that traveling on a windy day is reason enough to stop any moho! But the Trooper was very polite, and he did not accept our invitation to search the moho for whatever he was looking for. He had a dog in his cruiser, but I did not see him use the dog to sniff the outside of our moho. That would not have bothered me in the least bit. I am not sure how I will handle it if there is a next time, I am the kind of guy cops love. I treat folks the way I want to be treated, and I do feel that is how he treated me. I felt like the Trooper respected me as much as I respected him, and that is the most I can ask for. I am not sure how I will handle it if I ever feel disrespected by law enforcement officers, since it has never happened in my 41 years of driving and interacting with them. But times are changing, and like others have already mentioned, it is a shame we are even having this conversation. Thanks for all of the input from both sides. Who knows, maybe I am a really naive guy.

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Old 02-27-2015, 01:06 PM   #60
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Drug trafficking profiling is nothing new to recreational vehicles - in this case the rec. vehicle is a boat. Owning a Cigarette or Donzi in southern Florida seems to catch the attention of the CG and that's DHS attention. If you think it's tough trying to reason with a CHP cop, try someone from Homeland.

The boating mags usually have an article or 2 a year about unreasonable boardings. The probable cause for the Coasties is "you're on the water". We spent 2 days at anchor in Provincetown MA one summer with the Coastie Boaters motoring past us a few times a day. We took off for the next port of call, and just as the breeze came up, they pull in behind us and boarded us. Just a middle age couple on a 30 ft sailboat. Reason?: Improper spacing on the registration numbers.

Do not let the government take more of your rights. T. Jefferson is rolling over in his grave.
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Old 02-27-2015, 01:25 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebug5 View Post
Last year, we were traveling to Georgia and had already left Colorado, with the now dreaded green license plates as a target. We were stopped in Oklahoma for "weaving" on a very windy day, and when the Trooper asked if we were OK or just being blown around by the wind, I reminded him he was holding his Trooper hat on his head with both hands! He smiled, and then asked if anybody else was in the back of the moho, and I said no. He said "Are you sure?", so I invited him in and asked what type of sandwich he wanted. He grinned, and said that would not be necessary. He asked me to get my license and to join him in his cruiser.

He ran the license, and gave me a warning for "weaving". I asked him what he was really looking for, and he said he was just making sure I was not impaired. He also stated there is a big problem with drugs and human trafficking along the interstates. He then asked me why we were not towing a vehicle behind our moho. I told him our family in Georgia had a spare Jeep for us to use, and he simply said next time it would be better for us to tow our Jeep from Colorado. Not sure what that meant, but I assume it had to do with whatever he was profiling. He also told me the only reason he issued a warning receipt was for me to present it to any future LEO's I may be stopped by in Oklahoma, and it would prevent a similar occurrence.

After getting back on the interstate, we did see a lot of LEO's at the next few exits and overpasses, but none stopped us again. I did not like the feeling of being profiled, it really opened my eyes to that situation. Maybe that was the "life experience" I needed the most, because it was the one that bothered me the most.

So, after reading all of the posts on this thread, along with the other thread concerning property forfeiture, I am now thinking about any problems I had with our traffic stop. The Trooper had a reason to stop me, so beware that traveling on a windy day is reason enough to stop any moho! But the Trooper was very polite, and he did not accept our invitation to search the moho for whatever he was looking for. He had a dog in his cruiser, but I did not see him use the dog to sniff the outside of our moho. That would not have bothered me in the least bit. I am not sure how I will handle it if there is a next time, I am the kind of guy cops love. I treat folks the way I want to be treated, and I do feel that is how he treated me. I felt like the Trooper respected me as much as I respected him, and that is the most I can ask for. I am not sure how I will handle it if I ever feel disrespected by law enforcement officers, since it has never happened in my 41 years of driving and interacting with them. But times are changing, and like others have already mentioned, it is a shame we are even having this conversation. Thanks for all of the input from both sides. Who knows,
Quote:
maybe I am a really naive guy.
Bruce

Bruce, I think you're a really nice guy, not a "naive" guy!
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Old 02-27-2015, 01:40 PM   #62
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Thanks Joe, that means a lot to me. But, don't nice guys come in last? See what I mean about being naive. . . . .

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Old 02-27-2015, 02:17 PM   #63
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Without probable cause the search is not against "policy", it is against the law without a search warrant. Illegal search and siezure. Police have to abide by the laws just as others do.

If the motorhome owner gives consent, then the search is legal. I would not.

Know your rights, a lot of people have fought hard defending them in the past 250 years.

Semper Fi.
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Old 02-27-2015, 08:04 PM   #64
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Here is the real problem with people "consenting" to a search. If most people give up their rights because "... I have nothing to hide..." then the right is effectively dead anyway. It is very easy to target those few that insist on their rights for harassment. It is far better that we all insist on our constitutional rights or wake up one day and they are effectively gone. I realize that the constitution is an impediment to catching criminals and even terrorists. However our founding fathers already counted on that. Just think of how hard they made it to convict a guilty person. You need 12 jurors who are peers to agree that the suspect did it and then only using information gained in the courtroom. It would be "easier" to catch criminals or terrorists if we had a centralized government police force & internal control army that could search anyone or anyone's property at any time they choose. I put easier in quotes because in fact the average citizen ends up less secure because absolute power corrupts absolutely. If we allow government to do more for us the more they can do TO us. My wife is from a country that there is no limit to what the government can do. The government can arrest you at 2AM and toss you into prison without anyone even knowing your are there. Supposedly they can only do it for 2 years without a reason however there is really no enforcement mechanism so it is widely ignored. Private ownership of firearms is essentially banned except the very rich who can afford private security. So here is the rub, violent crime is rampant. Add to that fact government officials regularly demand bribes to get anything done. Just a "regular" traffic stop requires a bribe to be allowed to proceed on your way. Don't think it can't happen here it can! Liberty is a sacred gift we give to our children. Please don't allow warrantless searches of your motorhomes.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:01 PM   #65
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First, I'm very pro law enforcement but I'm even more pro constitutional rights and where the two collide law enforcement looses my support.

100% agree. Liberty is eroded little by little like a river carves a canyon. But once lost it can only be regained by violence as we gained it from a tyrannical king. That is not the future I wish to leave behind.

As I said, I'm polite and respectful (even if they don't deserve it) but I am firm. While the LEO is getting his warrant, I'm getting my lawyer.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:25 PM   #66
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Sheesh - Can't anyone be inventive here.


I would welcome the LEO into my MH.


My dog would start going crazy.


If the LEO suggested taking the dog outside, I would say that he is highly allergic, and has to stay in an air conditioned environment.


I expect that it would be a quick search.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:37 PM   #67
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its all about attitude
yours and the troopers
if he/she is friendly and courteous....then smile and be polite.
if asked to search, politely say no. and

NEVER EVER consent to a road side search, when you are absolutely guilty of NOTHING.

you may have to wait on a warrant...but if your not doing anything wrong. there is no sense in giving up your rights.

border check point is different....you will be searched right away even if you say NO. so break out the camera or recording device to protect everyone.

if the trooper is rude or cocky....still say no and ask for a supervisor
then when they go back to the patrol car....call 911
you feel threatened for your safety, get it on tape.

and yes i like LEOs and all they do, but.
I dont do things to warrant a search..so it would be a polite no, just like when they ask for your social security number on a warning ticket???? why and NO, thank you
point is..make then do their job and actually have a good reason to search.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:23 PM   #68
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Wow, what a thread, and very scary information. We have vacationed out of Oklahoma into Colorado several times a year for the last 12-15 years and never gave a thought to the chance of being searched returning home from Colorado. I know it's not much of a reason for not giving permission for a search but since we don't wear street shoes in our motor home and ask any visitors to remove their shoes at the door I can imagine the response of the LEO when asked to please remove his shoes before entering for the search. Plus it would be very disturbing to know someone was pawing through all our belongings/food articles with hands that had been heaven knows where and possibly leaving a mess to clean up. Also the reason we have been very hesitant to cross any international borders while traveling in our motor home.

Appreciate all who took their time and effort to supply this information.
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Old 02-28-2015, 04:48 AM   #69
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Great thread. I'm retired military, and I'm sure I would let them search, if asked. However, I would hate it....when I was active I bought a used hot rod from someone that I presumed was a pot smoker. So I made an appt to have my car searched by the the Security Police before I brought it on base....good thing I did. The dog got real excited! After about 30 minutes of the repeatedly pulling the dog back to the job at hand, the dog and the officer never found any stash....so the officer just said it was apparent there had been drugs, but none obvious now, and I was good to go. I asked what would happen the next time I was "randomly" stopped coming in the gate, and he smiled and said the dog would react the same way...and I would have a bad day. I asked how to prevent it? He suggested I have the car well cleaned and detailed. Just because I had this in the record in no way gave me a pass next time....otherwise druggies would have thier car checked too. Bottomline was I did have it detailed, but still only brought the car on base as infrequently as I possibly could. I liked the car, but I loved my career. Now I'm driving a "new to me" motor home. I have no idea how a drug dog would react....but I guess I should make an appointment with the base and go find out!
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:13 PM   #70
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I too as retired senior enlisted have witnessed the scheduled search for subordinates. And as such would never give consent to search. Impound if you must (shame on you), however upon consent to search if they feel, smell, or touch what they deem illegal for their city, county, or sate laws, all monies and materials will be confiscated and withheld. You will pay more time and money getting it back if at all.
To many never see their items again... A very sad thing for the republic..
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