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Old 03-03-2015, 10:40 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by msturtz View Post
Here is the real problem with people "consenting" to a search. If most people give up their rights because "... I have nothing to hide..." then the right is effectively dead anyway. It is very easy to target those few that insist on their rights for harassment. It is far better that we all insist on our constitutional rights or wake up one day and they are effectively gone. I realize that the constitution is an impediment to catching criminals and even terrorists. However our founding fathers already counted on that. Just think of how hard they made it to convict a guilty person. You need 12 jurors who are peers to agree that the suspect did it and then only using information gained in the courtroom. It would be "easier" to catch criminals or terrorists if we had a centralized government police force & internal control army that could search anyone or anyone's property at any time they choose. I put easier in quotes because in fact the average citizen ends up less secure because absolute power corrupts absolutely. If we allow government to do more for us the more they can do TO us. My wife is from a country that there is no limit to what the government can do. The government can arrest you at 2AM and toss you into prison without anyone even knowing your are there. Supposedly they can only do it for 2 years without a reason however there is really no enforcement mechanism so it is widely ignored. Private ownership of firearms is essentially banned except the very rich who can afford private security. So here is the rub, violent crime is rampant. Add to that fact government officials regularly demand bribes to get anything done. Just a "regular" traffic stop requires a bribe to be allowed to proceed on your way. Don't think it can't happen here it can! Liberty is a sacred gift we give to our children. Please don't allow warrantless searches of your motorhomes.
You'll like this quote:
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of darkness."___Supreme Court Justice William Douglas

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Old 03-03-2015, 11:44 AM   #86
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If you told a Police officer "No, you do not have permission to search. But would you like to come in for a tour of my RV?" Would this give up your rights and allow the officer to search?

I like this approach! I think I will use that if I'm ever stopped! Thanks!
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Old 03-03-2015, 12:33 PM   #87
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Where is your Motor Home licensed that they suspect you. I drove my MH from Arkansas to California by msyelf the first year I had it was never stopped. Drive it around Oklahoma and Arkansas a lot never been stopped. Sometimes i have my wife sometimes i do not if she has to work and i have a job where i need it. I have been through at least a half a dozen vehicle stops where they were checking for drunk drivers. They come up to the drivers side window and ask me if I have been drinking. I tell them i do not drink alcohol and they wave me through. Actually with the exception of going into Canada one time out of all the times I have done that and going onto military bases I have never had my vehicle searched. The closest I have had was the police stopping me at a drivers check point. leaning in the car and asking if I had been drinking. While they leaned in they shine their flashlight on the floor and seats looking for empty beer cans or alcohol but other than that never stopped and I have had several nice conversations with police officers concerning my inability to properly understand those signs that say speed limit and a number.
My motor home is registered in AZ. Over the past 4 years, I have taken 41 trips in it (trying to get my money's worth). 38 of those trips have been relatively short, all in AZ and Southern or Central CA. I have never been stopped on any of these trips. All 4 stops took place on my 3 vacations to IN. For what it is worth, I am white, clean cut, and dress presentably. I have never had any interest in illegal substances, even in my younger years. My RV is a 2005 33' Fleetwood Class A, in fine condition inside and out.

3 of the 4 stops were on main interstate highways, the one in KS was a little off the beaten path in order see some different scenery on the way home. The officer in KS during his search did tell me that it was a main corridor for drug running, and said that my RV was much nicer than most that he searches. That certainly gave me the hint that he profiles RVs.
The officer on the OK stop questioned me why I would take a 3200 mile round trip vacation by myself.

Always in the back of my mind during these searches, is that one of these commandos would come back out of my bedroom after a search and say "look what I found" in order to get his hero card punched by his superior officer. In one search, I was instructed to remain outside the vehicle, and in the other one, I was told to return to the driver's seat and face forward during the search. I thought I was being paranoid, but someone else brought up the same point in this thread. Whether he/she planted something, or found something from a previous owner of the RV(as also pointed out here), I would be in some trouble, hundreds of miles from home.

It is frustrating to think that I may have to spend my hard earned money on a costly dash cam just to protect myself during the next go-around.
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Old 03-04-2015, 12:56 AM   #88
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DONUT LOVER....Looking at your life's work, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you. You deserve your high level of relaxation.
Thank you so much for the kind words...they're very much appreciated.
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Old 03-04-2015, 01:19 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by jones47172 View Post
If you told a Police officer "No, you do not have permission to search. But would you like to come in for a tour of my RV?" Would this give up your rights and allow the officer to search?

I also like this approach . Friendly, but not acquiescing to his request !
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Old 03-04-2015, 08:40 AM   #90
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Terryl, that's what is of most concern for me. I've know several LEO's in my past working years that were friends and acquaintances. This tactic was used in many instances to get the "bad guy" even if no illegal substance was found. This was in the 1980's! I'd like to think we've evolved since those times. Some states have but unfortunately the vast majority have not. Not only the lack of respect for the citizen and constitutional regard for law are at issue and circumvented by creative tactics but the militarization of law enforcement in general IMO is a case for extreme alarm in what our forefathers founded the constitution upon. Scary, very scary indeed!
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Old 03-04-2015, 09:14 AM   #91
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... While I now believe that I will stand my ground when the inevitable happens again this summer, I suspect the price I will pay for not giving in to the cop will be a citation for straddling the white line or an improper lane change, and I wonder if that's worth the hassle in order to win an argument. Looks like I will be investing in a dash cam this year.
This is why I and many others suggest that you equip your vehicle with cameras. At least have a dash cam with dual cameras that cab be split. That way the rear facing one can be as high up as possible so it can't be blocked by someone standing in front of it. A full multi camera system is even better and is not that costly especially if you can do most of the work your self.

You need this so you can document the search, or even someone breaking into your RV, since you can't be there.

It's what I plan to do when we get our RV. It will not only tie into any backup and side view cameras but additional one inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jones47172 View Post
If you told a Police officer "No, you do not have permission to search. But would you like to come in for a tour of my RV?" Would this give up your rights and allow the officer to search?
It's an interesting approach to take. You just want to make sure that you have everything closed up when you start traveling so there really is noththing they can look in. If you have a no shoes policy ask them to remove their boots. Maybe something like, "I'm sorry officer but I never consent to a search but I'm more than willing to give one of you a tour. I do have a no shoes policy so would you mind removing your boots?"

As said anything they see in plain sight is free game soggiest be aware of that.

One other thing, if you have a lawyer you might want to ask them about drafting a letter in their best polite legalese that he has instructed his client to not connect to any searches without consulting with him first. You would only present this when conditions reached a point that you know they are going to search and while your calling him. Might not do any good but it also might stop the search dead in it tracks.

BTW, has anyone been stopped while pulling a 5er or just motorhomes?
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Old 03-04-2015, 08:10 PM   #92
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I would never consent to a search. As some have said, I am retired and am never in a hurry to get some where. They will need to get a search warrant. Now having said that,our rights are being taken away from us everyday. Even the supreme court has started to go against the construction.
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Old 03-04-2015, 09:58 PM   #93
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Traffic stop gone wrong

A bit off topic but relative to this discussion. The RV segment shares many common interests and concerns with classic car owners...

Highway Patrol Error Results In Hellish Roadside Experience For Classic Car Owner
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Old 03-05-2015, 09:36 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
You'll like this quote:
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of darkness."___Supreme Court Justice William Douglas


Very wise words!
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Old 03-05-2015, 10:44 AM   #95
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This also happened to a famous couple in aviation. These people have taught the fundamentals to probably 90% of all pilots.

Police arrest John & Martha King - General Aviation Flying Videos - AOPA
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:31 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
You'll like this quote:
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of darkness."___Supreme Court Justice William Douglas

Never heard this but I like it and will use it in all my emails.
Thanks
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:58 PM   #97
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I have to wonder how many coach searches have been performed shoe-less.

Sorry sport, the shoes stay outside.
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Old 03-05-2015, 08:07 PM   #98
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I agree I would not consent to search. Why would you voluntarily give up your rights?... I thought the Carroll still required probable cause --
he Court held, however, that

[i]t would be intolerable and unreasonable if a prohibition agent were authorized to stop every automobile on the chance of finding liquor, and thus subject all persons lawfully using the highways to the inconvenience and indignity of such a search... . [T]hose lawfully within the country, entitled to use the public highways, have a right to free passage without interruption or search unless there is known to a competent official, authorized to search, probable cause for believing that their vehicles are carrying contraband or illegal merchandise.[4]
The Court added that where the securing of a warrant is reasonably practicable, it must be used.[5]

Just my two cents...
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