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Old 03-08-2015, 09:08 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by gacamp View Post
Sorry but my father suffered grave wounds in WWII that eventually led to his death to protect his families life under the Constitution and the laws of this land. LEO's have to obey the laws like every other citizen, no exceptions.


My point is that if we all try to cooperate and help law enforcement we may be able to avoid another horror like the the Boston bombing
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:43 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by GA Navigator View Post
Sorry if I offended anyone. Too many beers at the campsite, haha don't drink and post.
I correct myself. Smuggling is probably a stretch.
My thoughts were about how law enforcement has terrorized and or killed innocent people busting into the wrong homes during swat raids,


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I'm glad to see you've modified your position a bit by at least eliminating "smuggler" from your blanketed description of Law Enforcement Officers. I'd dare say though, it appears your fire pit happy juice maybe hasn't totally left your system yet. But, if it has, and you still want to stand by your belief that LEO's are terrorists, please allow me to make a suggestion that you and this forum can certainly benefit by.

Next time you plan on taking a trip in your motor home, call ahead to the law enforcement facility in the area you plan to stop. Either the local municipal (city) agency or the State Highway Patrol. Ask them if they have a "Ride-along" program at their department. If so, partake of it...spend a full shift with them riding with them from call to call. Take a break from that smokey fire pit, take a deep breath and allow yourself an opportunity to learn what really goes on behind the curtain. Then you can return to this forum with productive, first hand, "factual" knowledge of how it's done out there. Think of the upside...everyone here on this forum will benefit from your experience.

I truly believe if you are open minded enough to take that adventure, you may find there's no room in your vocabulary for the words, "Terrorists" and "law enforcement officers" when used in the same sentence.

This will be my last posting on this subject and I apologize to all the other members for using their valuable forum time/space going mano y mano.
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Old 03-08-2015, 09:18 PM   #115
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We were a senior couple in an RV coming back in the states from Canada. They decided to search, which would be ok but that had us leave and go to a building where we couldn't see what they were doing.. Scary, they could have planted anything. All worked out ok, but don't know why we had to leave our coach
Borders are a different set of circumstances and case law. This is completely different than the current discussion. You do not have the option of denying a search when entering the country. From Wiki:
"
The border search exception is a doctrine of United States criminal law that allows searches and seizures at international borders and their functional equivalent without a warrant or probable cause.[1]

This doctrine is not actually an exception to the Fourth Amendment, but rather to the Amendment's requirement for a warrant or probable cause.[1][2] Balanced against the sovereign's interests at the border are the Fourth Amendment rights of entrants. Not only is the expectation of privacy less at the border than in the interior,[2][3] the Fourth Amendment balance between the interests of the Government and the privacy right of the individual is also struck much more favorably to the Government at the border.[4] This balance at international borders means that routine searches are "reasonable" there, and therefore do not violate the Fourth Amendment's proscription against "unreasonable searches and seizures"."
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:17 PM   #116
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Old 03-08-2015, 10:21 PM   #117
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We have been 'boarded' by the border patrol. They told us they were doing an Ag Inspection.

We were instructed to go sit on the curb away from our 5er while 5 black clad, booted and armed fellows climbed into the toy hauler. They had to have walked on the chairs and couches as the slides were in. None of them came out and put their shoes back on. Most of them entered the back door and exited the front door.

After a delay of approximately a half hour we were told to move along.

I figure it was a training exercise, at least I hope so. We have been inspected and the ag inspector did it by himself. Was also very personable and explained what he wanted.

Overall was not a steller encounter as I felt intimidated and violated.
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Old 03-09-2015, 02:56 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
We have been 'boarded' by the border patrol. They told us they were doing an Ag Inspection.

We were instructed to go sit on the curb away from our 5er while 5 black clad, booted and armed fellows climbed into the toy hauler. They had to have walked on the chairs and couches as the slides were in. None of them came out and put their shoes back on. Most of them entered the back door and exited the front door.

After a delay of approximately a half hour we were told to move along.

I figure it was a training exercise, at least I hope so. We have been inspected and the ag inspector did it by himself. Was also very personable and explained what he wanted.

Overall was not a steller encounter as I felt intimidated and violated.
If coming across the border then Ag may be a valid but would be secondary to a "normal" border crossing inspection but I'll respectifully demand to be present to video the process. I suspect they won't allow this which is why I plan to have video cameras running all the time.

For internal inspection miles from any border the heck if I'm going to allow any search without demanding a warrant first.

I'm still wondering how many have had their 5er searched.

Does anyone had large dogs how did they handle them if searched?
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:43 PM   #119
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If coming across the border then Ag may be a valid but would be secondary to a "normal" border crossing inspection but I'll respectifully demand to be present to video the process. I suspect they won't allow this which is why I plan to have video cameras running all the time.

For internal inspection miles from any border the heck if I'm going to allow any search without demanding a warrant first.

I'm still wondering how many have had their 5er searched.

Does anyone had large dogs how did they handle them if searched?
I had my 85 lb. black lab in the RV on the first search, and my 77 lb. golden lab the second time around. The first time, I was asked if the dog "was going to be a problem." She wasn't, so was allowed to stay. The second search, the officer suggested I put a leash on the dog and remove her from the RV, but I declined the offer, as the only thing she would have done is lick him to death.

After reading this whole thread, I am still confused about one point. If the officer determines he has probable cause (i.e) "alerted" by his canine, or thinks you look nervous, can you still insist on a search warrant, or is probable cause enough reason for him/her to conduct a search without permission?
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Old 03-09-2015, 01:41 PM   #120
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It's always easy to be an armchair Rambo and say I'd do this or that when sitting behind a keyboard but it's different when placed in the situation. I don't know what I'd do but I hope I have the presence of mind to decline and keep my smart-ass replies to myself.

My Dad was with the 442nd RCT in Europe, I was at Danang, RVN and my brother was in Desert Storm. No way am I going to allow some pissant power freak to violate my rights on some hunch, whim or for giggles.
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Old 03-09-2015, 03:57 PM   #121
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What about slides? With my slides in it is difficult to get to the back and impossible to look into many storage compartments. If someone wants to look we are going to have to go to a rest area or some location other than the side of the road so I can get level and safely put slides out.
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Old 03-09-2015, 05:13 PM   #122
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I won't consent to a vehicle (Motorhome) search without a search warrant, period. Just going to the lake, in So. AZ, we are subjected to BP check points and get stopped every time.


I understand why they're there. That's to make a show, to attempt to justify their jobs. But, the Border Patrol can't do anything with illegals when they do catch them. So, I have a camera running every time I go thru one.
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Old 03-09-2015, 05:44 PM   #123
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Have people with cameras ever been asked (told) to turn off the cameras? What do you then?
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Old 03-09-2015, 06:19 PM   #124
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I had my 85 lb. black lab in the RV on the first search, and my 77 lb. golden lab the second time around. The first time, I was asked if the dog "was going to be a problem." She wasn't, so was allowed to stay. The second search, the officer suggested I put a leash on the dog and remove her from the RV, but I declined the offer, as the only thing she would have done is lick him to death.

After reading this whole thread, I am still confused about one point. If the officer determines he has probable cause (i.e) "alerted" by his canine, or thinks you look nervous, can you still insist on a search warrant, or is probable cause enough reason for him/her to conduct a search without permission?
I believe if he has probably cause you can still deny him permission to search your vehicle. With probably cause he can put you in hand cuffs in his cruiser and search it any way. Probable cause or not really has nothing to do with whether or not he can search. It has more to do with the trial if he finds anything. If he did a search without probable cause and without your permission, anything he finds will not be allowed into evidence. Keep this in mind though. In OJ simpsons trial the police searched his home without a warrant. They used a couple of flimsy excuses but basically it was a warrantless search. Everything they found was allowed into evidence. They did that knowing he was a huge public personality and there would be a lot of backlash from it. If they did that with him I don't think they would think twice about doing it to a nobody like me.
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Old 03-09-2015, 06:22 PM   #125
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Has anyone heard a lawyer say: "Sure let them search without a warrant." Or "Sure give up your right to remain silent."


Not all lawyers are perfect, but they know the law better than any of us layman.


If my lawyer says" No warrant, no search, and keep your mouth shut," then I am going with that.
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Old 03-09-2015, 06:44 PM   #126
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I'm glad to see you've modified your position a bit by at least eliminating "smuggler" from your blanketed description of Law Enforcement Officers. I'd dare say though, it appears your fire pit happy juice maybe hasn't totally left your system yet. But, if it has, and you still want to stand by your belief that LEO's are terrorists, please allow me to make a suggestion that you and this forum can certainly benefit by.

Next time you plan on taking a trip in your motor home, call ahead to the law enforcement facility in the area you plan to stop. Either the local municipal (city) agency or the State Highway Patrol. Ask them if they have a "Ride-along" program at their department. If so, partake of it...spend a full shift with them riding with them from call to call. Take a break from that smokey fire pit, take a deep breath and allow yourself an opportunity to learn what really goes on behind the curtain. Then you can return to this forum with productive, first hand, "factual" knowledge of how it's done out there. Think of the upside...everyone here on this forum will benefit from your experience.

I truly believe if you are open minded enough to take that adventure, you may find there's no room in your vocabulary for the words, "Terrorists" and "law enforcement officers" when used in the same sentence.
Well said.
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