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Old 05-24-2008, 05:48 AM   #29
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My ignorance of living in the UK is huge - but I do find it incredible that such a situation should arise.

I only seem to read negative comments about the folks in Colorado who avoided paying Tax on their MH by buying it in Montana. As I see it, buying a vehicle in Montana does save you 1000's. Now then, perhaps you could answer this, when you pay your regular Taxe's, what are they for? if its for Refuge Collection, Fire Service, Police Service and so on, then buying a MH and driving it back to Colorado has not cost the City anything or am I missing something? Plus, they may have taken a risk in saving $1000's, but maybe that saving was re-invested in additional items for the MH or a better model, so the manufacturer benefited as did the workers at the factory. Tis a win win for most. The dealership in MT benefited as did the salesperson. It seems that only the Government didnt and so what! They seem to be doing their own thing most of the time and I am not sure they are supporting you with their fuel charges etc. so maybe they were just off-setting those extra costs?

In England we have a saying - People in Glass houses should not throw stones.

I am not pointing blame, but I think we all try to do things to save money, some ideas work and others dont, when they dont, we move on. At the end of the day, no one died.


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Old 05-24-2008, 06:36 AM   #30
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob (WA0MQE):
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have no sympathy for those who try not to pay their fair share. These are the people who probably complain that the community doesn't provide enough services for them, ie: fire and police protection, but don't want to contribute to the tax base. While taxes are not fun, they are necessary, and trying to evade them is wrong. It is never a bad idea or time to "Do the Right Thing".
</div></BLOCKQUOTE> I would agree with you but the key word you mention is "fair share" which in itself compared to other states Colorado is way too high for RV's on their different taxes. It's not only sales tax, but they gig you big time with year to year ownership tax. This computes to annual license fees of thousands of dollars. Likewise many of these RV's spend two thirds of their time in storage. Meaning they spend very little time on the roads.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Anyways this is a cautionary that hangs the sword of Damocles out for those who form an LLC so as not to pay their (or what they consider to be unfair) taxes. In Colorado the courts are deciding what is considered using an LLC so as not to pay ones taxes and other states will most likely follow the leader to some extent on this one.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE> In regards to LLC's what's the difference between an individual living in Colorado doing this then the hundred's of corporations that are doing this to avoid Colorado's taxes. Many of these companies have operations here, yet they moved their LLC's to states back east that are easier on business's regarding taxes and other issues.

Don't get me wrong I for one live on Colorado and I do not have an LLC in Montana, I pay my way out of proportion taxes and I pay exorbitant annual license fees for my motorhome. However, I feel for these guys and don't blame them. Personnally I would hope they'd get together as a group and hire an attorney and take it to court. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No one said it would be fair and Corporate America seeming to be a priviledged country unto itself with extra exemptions and loopholes not available to the common citizen is another matter. A civil war was fought over the rights of the individual states to tax and legislate as they see fit and the controversy will continue. The mechanism for these differences to exist in this manner from state to state was paid for dearly by a great many people.

Meanwhile be aware and take your best shot at staying within the lines established by the state you live in.

The details of the mechanism for this to get permanently better would turn into a religio/political discussion and outside the guidlines of this group so I won't go there.
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Old 05-24-2008, 07:56 AM   #31
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> A civil war was fought over the rights of the individual states to tax and legislate as they see fit and the controversy . . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The American Revolution was fought to protect the individual from abuses by a large & powerful central government.

The American Civil War was fought to protect the individual from abuses by state governments.

Now we're in a struggle against abuses by both of the above.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:41 AM   #32
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trying to put this into iRV2 perspective.......does anyone know if any members were part of the 122 unnamed that owe the more than 2 million dollars that they will be trying to collect?

I think, as the canuck observing, that they are trying to get the ones that form a company purely to avoid the taxes, but still live in CO, and the company does nothing other than own vehicles.

As for commercial ventures that move their HQ offshore, or to more tax friendly states, I am sure they get thiers somehow. If you want to see flag of convience issues, look at the cruise line/shipping industry. there are some ships sailing the oceans registered to countries with no shoreline.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:01 PM   #33
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If you own a sticks and bricks house in CO and keep your RV in CO, then you have to pay taxes to CO.

Don't expect to be able to get away with the Montana LLC just to avoid taxes.

If you're a fulltimer, then it's hard for any state to claim you as a taxpayer.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:47 AM   #34
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First of all I believe that the story doesn't give all of the facts (does that surprise you?) I spoke to one of the law firms that was involved in this case and it wasn't exactly as the paper reported. Their clients chose to settle for pennies on the dollar and actually dropped charges against some of the clients. It was cheaper then paying attorney fees.

Why is the state chasing individuals and not corp america??? Simple, corp america has deeper pockets than most individuals. Where an individaul will bow down and take the easy way out, a large business will take the state to task and make them prove everything, and attorneys cost money...pure and simple.

I still think that you need to do your homework, and make sure that everything is in order then the LLC is a great tool.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:36 PM   #35
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The State is going after the individuals who are participating in the LLC; not the LLC. Their contention is that the Montana LLC is not recognized in Colorado and if you own a property in Colorado you owe sales tax and it must be registered in Colorado regardless of where it is domiciled. We were only in Colorado for about 3 weeks last year and traveled all over the US, but we are being pursued because we own a home in Colorado, register our vehicles here, vote here etc. even though the RV is not here. We were advised by our tax adviser that the LLC was proper etc. We feel very put up on and dishearted that Colorado would tax us etc as we have lived, worked here almost our entire lives and now want to travel before we are too old. We owned two previous RV's and the taxes and registration was here; as we used the RVs in Colorado. Now we do not use the RV's in Colorado and they still want "the money". This unfair taxation!!!
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:54 PM   #36
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RoadRohrers:
But if a corporation is formed solely for the purpose of avoiding sales tax is it legal? Obviously, the Colorado courts have decided it is evasion within their jurisdiction. Similar situation between California and Oregon at the turn of the century.
"There has been no COLORADO COURT CASE; it is the department of revenue and atty general office that charges and no one has taken the State to court."
Will be interesting to watch as other states, all eager to maximize their income, do with the situation.

My sense had told me the problem had grown to where it would not be ignored. Usually, they wait until I get on board. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:21 AM   #37
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Why is this any different then purchasing things off the internet? I and thousands of others purchase things all the time off the internet and don't pay taxes. I'll bet even some of the people who posted on this topic that the LLC thing is illegal also buy off the internet and didn't pay taxes. It's obvious, Colorado is looking at big ticket items only. Colorado's taxing on recreational vehicles (which are occasional vehicles with respect to operating on their highways) has always and still is way out of hand.

Personally, I think Colorado's TABOR (Tax Payers Bill of Rights) which passed some years back and requires all tax increases to be approved by the voters have prompted Colorado to look closer at the loop holes to find other ways of getting the money they think is due out of it's residents.

I feel for you "Chappie" and after living in Colorado for 62 years, when we sell our house next year we'll be changing our domicle to Texas, where vehicles and especially RV taxes are much less.
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:05 AM   #38
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We should follow the fine example that our nation's (local, state, and federal) legislators have set. Almost every one of them has either an LLC or corporation set up only for the purpose of avoiding taxes. Those lousy scumbag officials in Colorado are definitely playing the "do as I say and not as I do" game.

Maybe I'm just jealous but I wish I had set up a Montana LLC to avoid the $9,000 tax rip-off in my home state. I would imagine that most of my tax money went to welfare or the illegal immigrant defense fund. I'm just thrilled about that.
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Old 06-25-2008, 11:40 AM   #39
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chappie:
The State is going after the individuals who are participating in the LLC; not the LLC. Their contention is that the Montana LLC is not recognized in Colorado and if you own a property in Colorado you owe sales tax and it must be registered in Colorado regardless of where it is domiciled. We were only in Colorado for about 3 weeks last year and traveled all over the US, but we are being pursued because we own a home in Colorado, register our vehicles here, vote here etc. even though the RV is not here. We were advised by our tax adviser that the LLC was proper etc. We feel very put up on and dishearted that Colorado would tax us etc as we have lived, worked here almost our entire lives and now want to travel before we are too old. We owned two previous RV's and the taxes and registration was here; as we used the RVs in Colorado. Now we do not use the RV's in Colorado and they still want "the money". This unfair taxation!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you were only in Colorado for 3 weeks, why not move your legal residence to a tax friendly state? South Dakota and Texas are both much more tax friendly to someone who is retired that Colorado. Why stay legal residence of a state that will tax your retirement income? You can still owe property in a state, that doesn't make you a legal resident. If you maintain your driver's license, vote in the state, etc., then you can expect that the state believes you are a citizen of that state and should pay the appropriate taxes. That's why a lot of us are Texans or South Dakotans or Floridians.

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Old 09-06-2008, 12:12 PM   #40
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The article in the newspaper was missleading at best. Those convicted bought motorhomes in Colorado and signed a document that stated they would not be domiciled in Colorado. They were purchased by a Montana LLC, but were domicled in Colorado-contrary to the written statement signed by the purchasers. This is fraud. This information was not contained in the newspaper item and was intentionally misleading. It was easy for the State to prove the fraud charge. They had the documents and pictures of the motorhomes parked at the Colorado homes.
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