Concrete

[Crasher]

You know my compacted gravel with a couple inches road base has never cracked or needed any maintenance except to rake it over once a year. Tires were still good after 8 years with no checking. Glad I didn't go with concrete.

[Razzman]

Originally Posted by Crasher

You know my compacted gravel with a couple inches road base has never cracked or needed any maintenance except to rake it over once a year. Tires were still good after 8 years with no checking. Glad I didn't go with concrete.

That's what I'm sayin' too! A concrete pad is not a "must have" to park on, well obviously for some it is I guess. And that's fine if that's your choice. To say that concrete is the way to go without any proof of added benefit other than looks is kinda misleading to the OP though IMO. $400 vs $4000, I can think of a lot more to do with that extra cash.

[Engle]

Don't waste your time or money with rebar..... Too much overkill on this thread.
Make the contractor cut expansion joints. A slab that large will tend to crack a bit over time and the cracks will be in the joints. 3000psi concrete will work fine. 6" is best.
Listen to Crasher and Razzman if you want to save money. Not as pretty but just as functional.

[kyrv37]

Wow, a lot of good advice on here.

[palehorse89]

60 posts on just one word "Concrete" AMAZING.........

[ladagobago]

Originally Posted by palehorse89

60 posts on just one word "Concrete" AMAZING.........

true. concrete is for ever if done right and it cost money to do it right. Of course, everyone is an expert but few every live long enough to see the results of a good job only the poor ones. my grandfather put side walks in our town back in 1924 and they are still there with his bronze contractors plaque in place - no cracks, no lifts and no sections pumped into the ground. good work Grandpa. He has been dead for 45 years but his good job lives on.

about 40 years ago, I got a job to remove concrete at a steel plant in utica NY. the slab was 16 inches with 1 inch rebar on 12 in squares. we installed a 70 foot truck scale in the middle of the slab. the slab was over 80 years old and not one crack. it had over 400 tons of rolled sheet steel siting on it. we tested the concrete before cutting into it and test came back as 8000 psi crete.

something learned was that concrete gets harder and stronger with age. Hearing the story of one of our members about the removal of his damaged concrete should be enough for anyone to realize that doing it right the first time saves money in the long haul. Just sayin.

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by palehorse89

60 posts on just one word "Concrete" AMAZING.........

Even more amazing, IMHO, is the number of “experts” who will advise against using wire or rebar. I’ve even read one post from an “expert” who said that rebar will CAUSE cracking, because the rebar will rust, expand, and crack the concrete—tell the DOT they no longer need to waste time and tax money on all that rebar in bridge abutments and general bridge construction.

As I stated, I’m no concrete expert, but I’ve probably had more of it poured than 99 out of 100 homeowners. And every single job turned out to be a stellar performer, even after ten years or more. Every job but one, that is. On my very first pour, as a young man, I listened to my “expert” contractor telling me rebar and wire were unnecessary in my pour, because the 6”+fiber he was pouring was “better than wire or rebar”. Guess how that turned out? On every job after that, I followed truly expert, documented, industry-accepted advice. Most jobs had wire or rebar. Some did not. ALL were thicker at the edges. I never let another pour happen that I did not watch closely. Make sure you SEE the contractor pulling up the wire, and that it is supported at multiple points—wire lying on the base under concrete accomplishes nothing. Also, on my most recent pour, I installed the rebar myself, used multiple supports, and even welded the rebar together, as is done in bridge construction. Maybe none of that was necessary, but almost a year later, I have not one tiny crack, when the contractor assured me it would crack around the edges for certain. And the slab has supported a large tandem dump truck full of gravel—nearly 60,000#.

Also, note how many failures occur at the apron of a slab, if it has to support heavy vehicles. Regardless the compaction of your base, and especially if you are not using rebar in the apron, slope the apron so its leading edge is below grade. That way the vehicle tires do not have to “climb” onto the slab.

For most folks, EVERY concrete pour is a major investment. You only need ONE failure to make you wish you had “gone overboard” on your choices in the beginning.

Van W 2000 Dynasty 36 pulling one Harley
Eastern NC

[PatStab]

We had 6 inch cut out and they put gravel, can't remember the name for it but my husband says when it rains on it the stuff gets like concrete and there is at least 6 inches or more of concrete, we had all the specs as hubby works with concrete, sorry now I don't remember. We told Graber Post what we were parking on it, my motorhome weighs over 32000 pounds. I think they do lots of equipment buildings for farmers and they have huge tractors. Our motorhome garage is 18 X 44 x 16. I was looking yesterday and I don't see any cracks and its sawcut too.

We had 6 inches or more of cut for our driveway, then put down that liner and added the rock, its good and solid. This year he intends to put a few loads of smaller type of rock. We do need to put an apron on the front so he can get under the motorhome and not be on rock.

Soon as the weather gets nice we are putting a 30 X 35 apron on our house garage, so he could drive up there, have to be sure its thick enough though if we use it for that too. Our driveway is holding up really well this was the first winter for it, part of it was established but we made a circular drive for the motorhome so part was new.

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Even more amazing, IMHO, is the number of “experts” who will advise against using wire or rebar. I’ve even read one post from an “expert” who said that rebar will CAUSE cracking, because the rebar will rust, expand, and crack the concrete—tell the DOT they no longer need to waste time and tax money on all that rebar in bridge abutments and general bridge construction.

As I stated, I’m no concrete expert, but I’ve probably had more of it poured than 99 out of 100 homeowners. And every single job turned out to be a stellar performer, even after ten years or more. Every job but one, that is. On my very first pour, as a young man, I listened to my “expert” contractor telling me rebar and wire were unnecessary in my pour, because the 6”+fiber he was pouring was “better than wire or rebar”. Guess how that turned out? On every job after that, I followed truly expert, documented, industry-accepted advice. Most jobs had wire or rebar. Some did not. ALL were thicker at the edges. I never let another pour happen that I did not watch closely. Make sure you SEE the contractor pulling up the wire, and that it is supported at multiple points—wire lying on the base under concrete accomplishes nothing. Also, on my most recent pour, I installed the rebar myself, used multiple supports, and even welded the rebar together, as is done in bridge construction. Maybe none of that was necessary, but almost a year later, I have not one tiny crack, when the contractor assured me it would crack around the edges for certain. And the slab has supported a large tandem dump truck full of gravel—nearly 60,000#.

Also, note how many failures occur at the apron of a slab, if it has to support heavy vehicles. Regardless the compaction of your base, and especially if you are not using rebar in the apron, slope the apron so its leading edge is below grade. That way the vehicle tires do not have to “climb” onto the slab.

For most folks, EVERY concrete pour is a major investment. You only need ONE failure to make you wish you had “gone overboard” on your choices in the beginning.

Van W 2000 Dynasty 36 pulling one Harley
Eastern NC

Well, .........15 years ago, I poured 126 yds. of driveway and sidewalks, 4 different patio's and none of that 126 tds. of fibercrete cement has any re bar in it, poured all on 1"celotex. My driveway is poured flush with the garage floor rain apron outside the garage door and has never moved from frost in the Pennsylvania winters (My Mother pulled into my garage just the other night due to it was raining out, and she commented on how smooth the transition from the driveway to the garage floor was,, my Dad's lifted with frost over the years and never set back down right, 2" bump). My driveway slabs are 10'x12'x5-1/2" and not one of them has even a hairline crack in them! I can post pictures of the driveway if you want to see it close up. I did not, along with others claim to be "A expert" on cement, but the information I have posted is time weighed and harsh weather tested construction of cement projects. If anyone feels the need to load their cement projects around your home with steel, go for it. As for comparing bridge jobs and road construction jobs to home owner job's
My Knowledge and methods came from my Fathers 50 yrs of owning a excavating business, he had seen it all.......what worked and what failed and everything from A TO Z. So far his knowledge he shared with me has not failed! God bless him, and I miss him, as I had a lot more I wanted to learn from him

[Vanwill]

Palehorse--I did not mean to start an argument. I don't do that. PERIOD. So this is a sincere question--what does pouring over celotex do? Is it to allow the slab to "shift" as one monolith without incurring a localized high-stress area? It would just "seem" like pouring over a soft surface like that would be the last thing you would want to do. Is it just for areas with very cold winters? As I said, this is a serious question, not a challenge.

Van W. 2000 Dynasty 36 pulling one Harley
Eastern NC

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Palehorse--I did not mean to start an argument. I don't do that. PERIOD. So this is a sincere question--what does pouring over celotex do? Is it to allow the slab to "shift" as one monolith without incurring a localized high-stress area? It would just "seem" like pouring over a soft surface like that would be the last thing you would want to do. Is it just for areas with very cold winters? As I said, this is a serious question, not a challenge.

Van W. 2000 Dynasty 36 pulling one Harley
Eastern NC

Pouring cement on celotex in the frost zones will keep the frost from lifting the cement from driving and walking on it and exposure to extreme temperatures. It insulates the cement from the ground and does not allow the cold to the ground underneath the cement, there for, no frost heaving. The celotex is purly for frost zones and it also insulates during those humid days so the cement does not sweat, I have seen garage floors wet with condensation on humid days, the celetox stops this condition. As with other uses for it in construction, it is for insulation, basement walls is another place it is used, to insulate your basement walls from the cold ground. I am sorry if I came across as you were challenging me, I did not mean for it to seem that way....... Even with that exposed edge near the yard, it has never lifted or moved. Note the flat, even approach into the garage doors.
(click on photo to enlarge and zoom in)

[PatStab]

Just to let you know those little items that the rebar or wire sets on are called chairs. And rebar is preferable.

[kyrv37]

Where do you get these "chairs"? Does Lowe's have them?

[ladagobago]

yes and no. there are many suppliers and the price is around 50 cents each. in the old days we used bent metal chairs that had to be wire to the rod. the modern method is with plastic chairs that simply clip to the rod. the chair must be purchased for the size of rod and the proper height for placement in the depth of concrete.