Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-28-2012, 10:55 PM   #29
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by wa8yxm View Post
Insist on new batteries.. though the house batteries, if they are Six Volt pairs.. MIGHT recover and be good for years to come, the chassis battery is toast..

This is the biggest difference between starting and deep cycle


And even knowing that,,, I'd insist on new batteries.
there is no way for any poster here to know what batterys are good and what are bad in this OP unit he,s looking at .No where does he say what year the batterys are etc.Just because batterys are allowed to run dead does not automatically make them no good so to say the house batterys may be Ok and the chassis battery is toast is pure conjecture on your part.What if the batterys are only 6 months old? then what>? still toast?
My chassis batterys(original 31 series)) in my 08 AB got run stone dead last year.I charged them up over 2 day using slow charge and there like new as I type
__________________

__________________
rvrepairnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-29-2012, 03:22 AM   #30
Community Moderator
 
RV Wizard's Avatar


 
Country Coach Owners Club
Appalachian Campers
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Chattanooga, Tn.
Posts: 12,062
I would suggest that those wanting to educate themselves on batteries check out this:
Battery educational videos by Trojan
There are also many other websites that can help. It is possible to ruin new batteries in one day, especially a starting type battery, as the plates are thinner and more fragile.

"Batteries don't die; they're murdered" Concorde Battery Corp.
__________________

__________________
Mike, RVIA & RVSA Certified Master RV Technician
Amy, Dr. Assistant - Roxie & Mei Ling, four legs each
2000 Gulf Stream Scenic Cruiser 450 hp & 1330# torque
06 Saturn Vue, 06 Chevy Z71 4x4 & 2014 Corvette Z51 M7
RV Wizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 09:26 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
MattC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvrepairnut View Post
depends on how old they are,how many times they have been run this low etc.If there 2008 more than likely there not in perfect condition although to try and answer your question it should not have hurt the batterys just because u ran them that dead.in other words they should charge up 100%
I have been a professional doing upgrades to yachts for more than a few decades. I can promise you that the batteries are hurt by this deep discharge. If I could get there with my instruments (my own design), I could prove that the battery capacity was well below specification. I (for a fee) track clients batteries and every single time that the are discharged below 11.5 Volts, there is a loss of capacity. That loss is a very predictable function of the battery age and the discharge level.

This is personal opinion based on years of experience. If the batteries are four years old and were discharged below the power needed to crank the main engine for the chassis battery, it is toast. By the same token if the house battery will not crank the APU with the lights on, it is Real Toast.

Good Luck

Matt
__________________
A lifelong waterman and his bride going dry places for as long as the fuel money lasts.
MattC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 09:56 AM   #32
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattC View Post
I have been a professional doing upgrades to yachts for more than a few decades. I can promise you that the batteries are hurt by this deep discharge. If I could get there with my instruments (my own design), I could prove that the battery capacity was well below specification. I (for a fee) track clients batteries and every single time that the are discharged below 11.5 Volts, there is a loss of capacity. That loss is a very predictable function of the battery age and the discharge level.

This is personal opinion based on years of experience. If the batteries are four years old and were discharged below the power needed to crank the main engine for the chassis battery, it is toast. By the same token if the house battery will not crank the APU with the lights on, it is Real Toast.

Good Luck

Matt
my 4 year old 31 series batterys(EG) were stone dead.I slow charged them for 48 hours.thats a year ago and still going strong
SG test and load test etc and checked good as new.I sold and installed thousands of car and truck batterys.in very cold winter climates.The damage incured of running a perfect battery dead is minisule.Its not a thing u want to do no doubt but it certainly does not ruin a good battery just because u run it dead now in the OP case like I said who knows what year the batterys are.maybe there no good and maybe there fine its up to him and his dealer to decide .obviously if the dealer is willing to replace them include then go for it
but like I said 4 times now if there still in good shape as maybe there not original running them dead on the lot does not instantly ruin the batterys like your saying.To run out and buy 6 new batterys every time they get run low(dead)
is simply crazy and a waste of money
__________________
rvrepairnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 06:33 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
Country Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvrepairnut View Post
there is no way for any poster here to know what batterys are good and what are bad in this OP unit he,s looking at .No where does he say what year the batterys are etc.Just because batterys are allowed to run dead does not automatically make them no good so to say the house batterys may be Ok and the chassis battery is toast is pure conjecture on your part.What if the batterys are only 6 months old? then what>? still toast?
I did fail to mention that those were the original batteries. Unlike tires, I'm not sure if there's a way to determine their "birth" date, but it the coach is a 2008, so it was built in 2007. I did notice that the tires are 2006!

Mark
__________________
MarkofSJC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 07:19 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
cmpncrsaider's Avatar


 
Winnebago Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSJC View Post
I did fail to mention that those were the original batteries. Unlike tires, I'm not sure if there's a way to determine their "birth" date, but it the coach is a 2008, so it was built in 2007. I did notice that the tires are 2006!

Mark
I think there's a heat stamp on the battery
__________________
John and Vicki,2004 Winne Vectra 350 Cummins, 10k lb Blu Ox tow bar , 04 Dodge Ram 1500 4wd toad
cmpncrsaider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 08:48 PM   #35
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattC View Post
I have been a professional doing upgrades to yachts for more than a few decades. I can promise you that the batteries are hurt by this deep discharge. If I could get there with my instruments (my own design), I could prove that the battery capacity was well below specification. I (for a fee) track clients batteries and every single time that the are discharged below 11.5 Volts, there is a loss of capacity. That loss is a very predictable function of the battery age and the discharge level.

This is personal opinion based on years of experience. If the batteries are four years old and were discharged below the power needed to crank the main engine for the chassis battery, it is toast. By the same token if the house battery will not crank the APU with the lights on, it is Real Toast.

Good Luck

Matt
What he said. You may get lucky and be able to restore a stone dead battery, but I would not hang my hat on it.
Battery technology has not changed much, even AGM have the same principal as liquid filled battery's the AGM just uses more lead and less liquid.
Stuck in the middle of nowhere with a dead battery stinks. Imo
__________________
2010 Fleetwood Discovery, Cummins ISB 350, 2016 Jeep Rubicon or 2005 Jeep Rubicon.
jth camper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 09:07 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
MattC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 459
It may be worthwhile to try, but I did DC electrics for a living for a number of years and even if the battery recovers from a deep (>10V) discharge, there will be a capacity loss. This may not matter much to an RV, but when there is no shore power in the future and diesel fuel is precious (it cannot be replaced mid ocean), then a lot of things matter that don't matter to land dwellers.

We this work for cruising yachts, the kind that rarely - if ever - have shore power. I modified another's design for an instrument that can determine the condition of any secondary (rechargeable) battery. We had regular clients that wanted to know when to replace batteries. When one is talking about replacing an 8D Rolls or Trojan, you are talking about changing out an expensive 170# battery. This is not something you do not want to do if you don't need to.

Several of the owners kept very good logs. Of those that reported that letting the house bank deplete to less than 11.5, all showed significant loss of capacity when next analyzed. I have found that "car like" batteries are much worse in this area than the high end types.

We are still evaluating three different "desulfators" and the results so far are mixed. Much too mixed to offer any statement.

Matt
__________________
A lifelong waterman and his bride going dry places for as long as the fuel money lasts.
MattC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 11:49 AM   #37
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattC View Post
It may be worthwhile to try, but I did DC electrics for a living for a number of years and even if the battery recovers from a deep (>10V) discharge, there will be a capacity loss. This may not matter much to an RV, but when there is no shore power in the future and diesel fuel is precious (it cannot be replaced mid ocean), then a lot of things matter that don't matter to land dwellers.

We this work for cruising yachts, the kind that rarely - if ever - have shore power. I modified another's design for an instrument that can determine the condition of any secondary (rechargeable) battery. We had regular clients that wanted to know when to replace batteries. When one is talking about replacing an 8D Rolls or Trojan, you are talking about changing out an expensive 170# battery. This is not something you do not want to do if you don't need to.

Several of the owners kept very good logs. Of those that reported that letting the house bank deplete to less than 11.5, all showed significant loss of capacity when next analyzed. I have found that "car like" batteries are much worse in this area than the high end types.

We are still evaluating three different "desulfators" and the results so far are mixed. Much too mixed to offer any statement.

Matt
maybe but 2 different worlds and 2 entirely different situations.I firmly do not beleive that letting house batterys go under 11.5 volts will loose significant capacity.I have run my low several times over the last 2 years and all 4 still work as well as the day they were insta;lled.
__________________
rvrepairnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2012, 12:06 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
BFlinn181's Avatar
 
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 16,250
The OP is interested in buying a RV that has dead batteries as it sits on the lot. He doesn't know the past history, how old or how many times the batteries have been allowed to go below 11.5 volts. I believe his best bet is to negotiate a price reduction enough to cover new batteries. If the dealer insists in replacing batteries, he needs to make sure they are sized and rated for the coach.
__________________

Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
BFlinn181 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 09:20 AM   #39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: White City, Oregon
Posts: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
I'd require price reduction to cover cost of new batteries. If you let them put in new batteries, they could go for the cheapest, weakest batteries and you'd hardly be better off than you started. If they insist on replacement, write down size and rating of the 'dead' batteries in coach and require comparable replacements.
+1 and ooooooh soooo yes.
__________________
fredaevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 09:26 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
MattC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvrepairnut View Post
maybe but 2 different worlds and 2 entirely different situations.I firmly do not beleive that letting house batterys go under 11.5 volts will loose significant capacity.I have run my low several times over the last 2 years and all 4 still work as well as the day they were insta;lled.
You may believe that RVs (Recreational Vehicles) and RVs (Recreational Vessels) are different situations, but I can assure you that (except for the "marine" parts costing more) there are no differences that matter at all. Lead acid battery chemistry is the same regardless of where it is used.
You are very welcome to your opinions.
I will believe my instruments and the confirmed data.

Matt <www.southpointechandler.com>
__________________
A lifelong waterman and his bride going dry places for as long as the fuel money lasts.
MattC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 11:53 AM   #41
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattC View Post
You may believe that RVs (Recreational Vehicles) and RVs (Recreational Vessels) are different situations, but I can assure you that (except for the "marine" parts costing more) there are no differences that matter at all. Lead acid battery chemistry is the same regardless of where it is used.
You are very welcome to your opinions.
I will believe my instruments and the confirmed data.

Matt <www.southpointechandler.com>
what I meant by different worlds is if your way out on the ocean and your batterys fail u may be in a world of hurt.99% of Rver,s if battery fails your either in a camp ground,at home or very near easy help
so not near near as critical
__________________
rvrepairnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 12:06 PM   #42
Senior Member
 
BFlinn181's Avatar
 
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 16,250
Vast experience vs vast experience with data. Who you goin' to believe? The OP asked about dead batteries in an RV he has no history of. Should he buy with discount, have batteries replaced as part of the deal or not? The rest of this is just chest bumping.
__________________

__________________

Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
BFlinn181 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
batteries



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.