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Old 09-19-2012, 06:00 PM   #1
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Country Coach or Tiffin Phaeton

Right now I have a 5er and thinking about getting a MH. I have found 2 one an 06 Country Coach Inspire Siena 36' 4 slide with 36K 400 Cat and a new side brass/steel radiator and Washer/dryer como and the other one is an 08 phaeton qsh 36' 4 slide by tiffin 360 Cummins with with 45k Transferable warranty good till mar of 2014 with a stackable washer and dryer. Help if you can, time is getting short about one week to pick one. Both about the same price.
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:47 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by 2 Stroker View Post
Right now I have a 5er and thinking about getting a MH. I have found 2 one an 06 Country Coach Inspire Siena 36' 4 slide with 36K 400 Cat and a new side brass/steel radiator and Washer/dryer como and the other one is an 08 phaeton qsh 36' 4 slide by tiffin 360 Cummins with with 45k Transferable warranty good till mar of 2014 with a stackable washer and dryer. Help if you can, time is getting short about one week to pick one. Both about the same price.
2 stroker
I would say Country Coach, only because I have one for sale, but with the
warranty I would have to say Phaeton. Bottom line would be which one do you truly like better that conforms to your individual needs and lifestyle. If they are truly the same then the Phaeton. The Financing may also be better on the 08 than the 06. The other differences such as engine etc don't really make a difference. The DW better be happy!!!
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Stroker
Right now I have a 5er and thinking about getting a MH. I have found 2 one an 06 Country Coach Inspire Siena 36' 4 slide with 36K 400 Cat and a new side brass/steel radiator and Washer/dryer como and the other one is an 08 phaeton qsh 36' 4 slide by tiffin 360 Cummins with with 45k Transferable warranty good till mar of 2014 with a stackable washer and dryer. Help if you can, time is getting short about one week to pick one. Both about the same price.
2 stroker
I am sure you will get some advice from Phaeton owners who will give you a "heads-up" on some specific Tiffin issues you should check (ie. the wet bay), as well as some advice from CC owners. Anyway....a couple of general things.

1) Tires (are expensive) and the CC will need them now & the Phaeton in 2years. Personally, I'd be looking for new ones in either MH.

2) Batteries (are also expensive), if original need to be replaced on the CC and won't be long for the Phaeton unless the last owner was meticulous with the maintenance.

3) Does the CC come with an exhaust or an engine brake? The Phaeton is likely an ISC with an exhaust brake.

4) What is the CCC of each MH & is it sufficient for your needs? Do both have 10k hitches?

5) Do they both have IFS? How are the shocks & suspension components on each MH?

6) Are they both "raised rail" chassis? How's the storage? Do they both have heated wet-bays & tanks?

7) I prefer the side radiator on the CC, but like the idea that Tiffin is still in business.

8) Do they both have complete SERVICE record(s)? Probably the single most important item....have they both been maintained equally. I would expect the Phaeton is up-to-date as most warranties require service as a part of the contract.

9) Can you get any information or a history of repairs? Again, with the Phaeton this should be easy as the owner should have records or can get you a history of his warranty claims.

10) Have the TV's been updated in the CC? Does either Coach have an updated HD/auto seeking satellite system.....these are expensive.

11) Does either MH come with some expensive add-ons. For example...when we bought our MH the previous owner threw-in a new tow bar, toad braking system, new slide toppers, new awning, up-dated TV's and entertainment system, bar-be-que, extended warranty and a bunch of nice up-graded gizmos...worth around 5k....just something to consider.

Anyway...just some thoughts....good luck.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:50 AM   #4
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1st, CC is still in business, just not in production. Hopefully they will return in a couple years.
Tiffin has had some issues with their roof rails and water intrusion on certain models. I would check if the year/model you are looking at is of any concern.
CC would be my choice as it is a much higher quality coach, but as always floorplan, maintainance from previous owners etc would be considered.
The side radiater is considered by some to be a very desireable feature.
Check nada what the older CC and phaetons are worth, it will give you an idea of what you will be looking at if you decide to sell at some point. CCs hold their value better than most.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:58 AM   #5
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Personally, from what I have learned over the last few months, would probably sway to CC if the Cat 400 was not coupled with Cat tranny. I'd just prefer an Allison. I am thinking CC mostly used Cat transmissions in 2007, but not sure.

Hydro-Hot (Aqua-Hot) would be a nice feature if in either...and certainly as mentioned tires and batteries need to be considered in CC.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:32 PM   #6
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Personally, from what I have learned over the last few months, would probably sway to CC if the Cat 400 was not coupled with Cat tranny. I'd just prefer an Allison. I am thinking CC mostly used Cat transmissions in 2007, but not sure.

Hydro-Hot (Aqua-Hot) would be a nice feature if in either...and certainly as mentioned tires and batteries need to be considered in CC.
I have a 2007 CC that came with an Allison. As far as I know they all have Allison transmissions. I agree with you on the Hydro Hot. A good friend of mine that sold for LazyDays in Florida told me that they would most often have to wholesale coaches in this class without an HydroHot
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:58 PM   #7
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I have a 2007 CC that came with an Allison. As far as I know they all have Allison transmissions. I agree with you on the Hydro Hot. A good friend of mine that sold for LazyDays in Florida told me that they would most often have to wholesale coaches in this class without an HydroHot
I had year wrong, it was 2008 when they used some CAT transmissions. I was recently interested in a 2008 with CAT 425 and it had a CAT tranny. I understand that was not a good year for CC and in that year they used a number of CAT trannys. Several things caused me to back away from unit and the CAT tran was one of them.

The same dealership offering the 2008 CC 42'tag also had a 2008 Phaeton 42' tag with the 360 Cummins and IMO the 360 hp would not please me in that size coach with tag. The OP is suggesting the 360 in the 36' Phaeton which I would think sufficient with a nice Allison Tranny..

I am not sure HydroHot would be a deal breaker for me, but I find it very nice expecially in the winter in storage at our home. We do not have a lot of below 30 weather but when we have a few days consecutively in the 20s it is nice to just leave it on and feel all is well.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:43 PM   #8
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Thanks guys for the help on this one.
Little run down---
I am sure you will get some advice from Phaeton owners who will give you a "heads-up" on some specific Tiffin issues you should check (ie. the wet bay), as well as some advice from CC owners. Anyway....a couple of general things.

1) Tires (are expensive) and the CC will need them now & the Phaeton in 2years. Personally, I'd be looking for new ones in either MH.
Yes I know the tires are good for about 6 max 7 years

2) Batteries (are also expensive), if original need to be replaced on the CC and won't be long for the Phaeton unless the last owner was meticulous with the maintenance.
I think everything on the phaeton has been well keptup because he was a fireman and everything gets started every 2 weeks even the generator right down to the windshield wipers.
3) Does the CC come with an exhaust or an engine brake? The Phaeton is likely an ISC with an exhaust brake.
CC Exhaust Brake
4) What is the CCC of each MH & is it sufficient for your needs? Do both have 10k hitches?

Both have 10K hitches and both come with car tow

5) Do they both have IFS? How are the shocks & suspension components on each MH?

This I do not know

6) Are they both "raised rail" chassis? How's the storage? Do they both have heated wet-bays & tanks?

Don't know

7) I prefer the side radiator on the CC, but like the idea that Tiffin is still in business.
CC has there repair up and running along with there service dept
8) Do they both have complete SERVICE record(s)? Probably the single most important item....have they both been maintained equally. I would expect the Phaeton is up-to-date as most warranties require service as a part of the contract.

Both have service records. The phaeton was back in Red Bay, Al in 2010 and he said they went through everything and everything checked out. The roof rails, wet bay, and front driverside slide all check out, OK

9) Can you get any information or a history of repairs? Again, with the Phaeton this should be easy as the owner should have records or can get you a history of his warranty claims.
Can get history on both coaches
10) Have the TV's been updated in the CC? Does either Coach have an updated HD/auto seeking satellite system.....these are expensive.

32" LCD HD TV In-motion satellite dish

11) Does either MH come with some expensive add-ons. For example...when we bought our MH the previous owner threw-in a new tow bar, toad braking system, new slide toppers, new awning, up-dated TV's and entertainment system, bar-be-que, extended warranty and a bunch of nice up-graded gizmos...worth around 5k....just something to consider.
Both come with tow bar both come with toppers and they do not have the Hydo-Hot.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Stroker View Post
Thanks guys for the help on this one.
Little run down---
I am sure you will get some advice from Phaeton owners who will give you a "heads-up" on some specific Tiffin issues you should check (ie. the wet bay), as well as some advice from CC owners. Anyway....a couple of general things.

1) Tires (are expensive) and the CC will need them now & the Phaeton in 2years. Personally, I'd be looking for new ones in either MH.
Yes I know the tires are good for about 6 max 7 years

2) Batteries (are also expensive), if original need to be replaced on the CC and won't be long for the Phaeton unless the last owner was meticulous with the maintenance.
I think everything on the phaeton has been well keptup because he was a fireman and everything gets started every 2 weeks even the generator right down to the windshield wipers.
3) Does the CC come with an exhaust or an engine brake? The Phaeton is likely an ISC with an exhaust brake.
CC Exhaust Brake
4) What is the CCC of each MH & is it sufficient for your needs? Do both have 10k hitches?

Both have 10K hitches and both come with car tow

5) Do they both have IFS? How are the shocks & suspension components on each MH?

This I do not know From "Betterrving.com "Country Coach, a privately held company under the direction of Bob Lee and Jay Howard, is another quality manufacturer that builds luxury motor coaches from 34’ to 45’ and all of them are built on their proprietary DynoMax® chassis.

The hallmark features of the DynoMax chassis include 100% steel construction with no aluminum or wood framing. It offers independent front suspension with double wishbone construction, large bus-style air springs, ABS disc brakes and an IPD anti-sway bar. You will appreciate the dual fill fuel tank and cavernous, unobstructed pass-through basement storage compartments as you cruise down the highway on steel-belted radial tires and aluminum alloy wheels, protected by Koni heavy duty shock absorbers."

Phaeton straight axle, on the Freightlner XCR chassis they come with Sachs shocks. They come with four aluminum wheels and two steel (inner duals).

6) Are they both "raised rail" chassis? How's the storage? Do they both have heated wet-bays & tanks?

Don't know Phaeton's rear heater heats the wet bay. Both should have plenty of storeage. If the CC has aqua hot that takes us storeage space. It's still a plus in my opinion.

7) I prefer the side radiator on the CC, but like the idea that Tiffin is still in business.
CC has there repair up and running along with there service dept
8) Do they both have complete SERVICE record(s)? Probably the single most important item....have they both been maintained equally. I would expect the Phaeton is up-to-date as most warranties require service as a part of the contract.

Both have service records. The phaeton was back in Red Bay, Al in 2010 and he said they went through everything and everything checked out. The roof rails, wet bay, and front driverside slide all check out, OK

9) Can you get any information or a history of repairs? Again, with the Phaeton this should be easy as the owner should have records or can get you a history of his warranty claims.
Can get history on both coaches
10) Have the TV's been updated in the CC? Does either Coach have an updated HD/auto seeking satellite system.....these are expensive.

32" LCD HD TV In-motion satellite dish

11) Does either MH come with some expensive add-ons. For example...when we bought our MH the previous owner threw-in a new tow bar, toad braking system, new slide toppers, new awning, up-dated TV's and entertainment system, bar-be-que, extended warranty and a bunch of nice up-graded gizmos...worth around 5k....just something to consider.
Both come with tow bar both come with toppers and they do not have the Hydo-Hot.
2 stroker
Which floorplan does your wife like?
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:43 PM   #10
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Which floorplan does your wife like?
When it come to floorplan they are the same just the CC has rug up front she does not like that part and the only big difference is the TV in the Tiffin is in the middle on a wall and the CC is up front. I like the side radiator plus it is new and they are made in Portland,Or and I can talk to the first owners because they sold it to the second owner, a friend that buys and sells RVs.
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Old 09-21-2012, 04:13 PM   #11
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When it come to floorplan they are the same just the CC has rug up front she does not like that part and the only big difference is the TV in the Tiffin is in the middle on a wall and the CC is up front. I like the side radiator plus it is new and they are made in Portland,Or and I can talk to the first owners because they sold it to the second owner, a friend that buys and sells RVs.
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2S,
Since I went through a little of this August 2011, let me offer some personal input on a couple of things you mention. The fact that DW does not like the carpet is a situation that I can relate to and in my case it is not getting any better. We have even gone so far as to start pricing replacement of carpet to tile. TV in middle is an item I would think very nice then the up front chairs can be used better for watching TV. We only have one couch and one euro recliner so the use of cab chairs to watch a middle ship TV could be really nice. Don't get me wrong, I, too, would prefer a CC and I like side radiator, but there are sure a lot of pleased Tiffin folks who do not seem to mind having the rear radiator and commend Tiffin service. Tile throughout and TV where you want it (if that the case) is all a part of a more liked flooplan. We accepted a few things like those you mention and we later were a little sorry, especially a queen bed. Those little things you accept can possibly come back to haunt you. bill
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:57 PM   #12
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The only deal-breaker for me in this equasion is the fact that Country Coach went into bankruptcy a few years back and now someone else has all of their old inventory and is trying to claim that they are just as good as they ever were...I don't know, I just feel better when I know that the company that built my coach is still in business!
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:54 AM   #13
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As a current Tiffin owner, I am highly biased toward the Phaeton. Choosing a newer Phaeton over an older CC for a similar price would be a no-brainer for me despite the Phaeton's potential wet bay, roof and slide floor problems. Repairs of these problems are being covered by Tiffin with no argument for a period of 8 years from original the in-service date.

BTW, Jack asked about CCC. We have looked at the 36' Phaeton, and it is built on the same 32,000 lb GVWR chassis as the 40' Phaetons, so the CCC of the 36 is quite good (in the 4,000 lb range, I think).
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:46 AM   #14
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Both are coaches with loyal owners.

Get your foundation strong to start. Side radiators can not be added later vs. interior's can be adjusted to support both of your wants.

If this is a seen as a long term coach, buy the best quality and strongest supporting fondation you can. The fluff and puff stuff can be taken care of down the road. The advantage to changing the interior over, is you both get what 'you want'. (Carpets to tile; Cabinet work tuning to locate a TV on a side wall vs front; What else will make this 'your coach'? )

We're very happy with our CC. But, we do plan to change interiors around some to support what we both want. We knew this going in. But the bulk of the interior lay out was a major deciding point for my wife (galley counter space is huge, bigger then most 45' coaches). Previous owner had taken out the two recliners, and put in a J-Lounge. We knew we would convert this back. Also, we knew we would move the front Head Bumper TV to a new side cabinet behind the passenger chair. Carpet I like, but she does not like the color (why so many manufacturers put in solid light color carpets, is a major beef of hers!).

Pick the foundations of coach mecanicals, and major interior layout first. The other stuff can be changed to what you want. So a bit of a customized interior could be looked at as a plus.

The Inspire is a fine coach. Check Damon Rapoza's coach history, and look over what was on this rig. I recall most Inspires had 10 Gal WH's? Though the Inspire was the entry level (except years when Tributes were built) into the CC line up. The same attention to detail in construction was evident in the units I looked over. And the cabinet work is solid. Paint work on CC's, are among the best of any coach builder. Tiffens have the great long term Customer Service, and a sometimes rabid owner's group (Now, they'll tell you that CC owners are slightly damaged up in the head, or they'd had bought a Tiffen!). But the units I looked over when we did our search, were not in the same league as the CC's, Travel Supremes, Wanderlodges, Foretravels. I also liked the higher up the food chains Newmars and Monaco's. When I got inside and poked around, got down underneath, reviewed doucmentation, etc. - only the Wanderloge and Foretravels had as much attention to detail in construction as the CC. And the CC doucmentation is just fantastic.

As far as care on the CC? Between the restarted CC itself, Oregon Motor Coach (founded by CC big hitters, including a Lee), and several other good shops all over the country - service and parts are a zero concern (Note: We bought our used CC before the CC restart, and I still felt the same. I called and talked to OMC for input on shocks, and one other item. They spent a combined hour, including a stop and a call back to check something out, in trying to help me. A customer in San Diego, that they had no way of knowing if they would ever see as a cash customer. I respect that commitment to service. Oh, the input they gave me was 'spot on'.) Again, CC service is not a problem to me.

All this being said, when spending the coin you are looking to spend. Are you down to these two coaches becuase they are what you both want? Or, are they just two that looked good that were close? If the later, then I suggest you both sit down and make your lists of Must Have's and Nice to Have's. Go kick several tires. Dive onto PPL, and other sites to review pictures and lay outs. Come up with a list of manufacturers and modlels you both like, then shop the country. Budget first, with a budget that includes pre purchase inspection, and possible flight time to go look for yourselves.

In general, I recommend dropping years to stay within budget, while buying the best quality rig that you can. Quality lasts.

It's you $$, be sure you spend it where you want to - and at these cost points, don't 'settle' for something that is close and convient. Get your last coach first is a great saying!

Best of luck, have fun,
Smitty
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