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Old 01-11-2016, 01:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bronccat View Post
Best I can tell one of the bulb types is surged protected for running unregulated DC (that will spike) and one isn't that requires a AC/DC transformer to control the flow.

Based on this logic however, the DC would be protected and the AC/DC wouldn't - which seems bass-ackwards from my experience.
Are you running your coach on a garden lighting system from a landscaping transformer?

Again:
A/C = ALTERNATING CURRENT.
DC= DIRECT CURRENT.

They are two separate forms of electricity and are not inter-operable. Have you ever heard of a 12 A/C car battery? There may be some bulbs that are specially manufactured to operate on both - but why would you opt for those?

If those halogens run off your 12V house batteries they are using DIRECT CURRENT.

All that being said, there are some OLDER converters (made before today's modern circuitry) that have a sprinkle of A/C running over the DC output. Those will reduce the life of LEDs. Especially the cheaper ones.

As far as the voltage goes most high quality LED are not bothered by 14.4 VDC and are made to tolerate even higher voltages.
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:11 PM   #16
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If your lights are powered off of the house batteries, then the current is 12 v DC and a standard LED buld should work perfectly. If You're operating off of shore power that's been converted to 12 v and not the batteries, then it's AC power and a regular LED won't work, you need one that's capable of running on AC power. AC/DC bulbs will run on either DC or AC.
"You're operating off of shore power that's been converted to 12 v and not the batteries, then it's AC power"

That is COMPLETELY INCORRECT. Wrong wrong wrong.

A CONVERTER takes 120V AC and CONVERTS it to 12V DC
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajell View Post
Are you running your coach on a garden lighting system from a landscaping transformer?

Again:
A/C = ALTERNATING CURRENT.
DC= DIRECT CURRENT.

They are two separate forms of electricity and are not inter-operable. Have you ever heard of a 12 A/C car battery? There may be some bulbs that are specially manufactured to operate on both - but why would you opt for those?

If those halogens run off your 12V house batteries they are using DIRECT CURRENT.

All that being said, there are some OLDER converters (made before today's modern circuitry) that have a sprinkle of A/C running over the DC output. Those will reduce the life of LEDs. Especially the cheaper ones.

As far as the voltage goes most high quality LED are not bothered by 14.4 VDC and are made to tolerate even higher voltages.

Thanks, I understand AC vs DC. You either aren't reading or not understanding my comments.

There ARE two types of G4 LED bulbs. I had purchased the 12vDC and he is saying that I needed the 12vAC/DC

That was the point of my post. What is his underlying logic as it applies to RV systems and is it accurate.

I can do without the tone of your comments. If you cannot contribute without getting snarky, then simply leave the thread.
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:28 PM   #18
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Thanks, I understand AC vs DC. You either aren't reading or not understanding my comments.

There ARE two types of G4 LED bulbs. I had purchased the 12vDC and he is saying that I needed the 12vAC/DC

That was the point of my post. What is his underlying logic as it applies to RV systems and is it accurate.

I can do without the tone of your comments. If you cannot contribute without getting snarky, then simply leave the thread.
If saying that I don't understand what you are saying is being snarky, I don't know what to tell you. There is a lot of misinformation being presented here which is not helping to understand or solve your problem.

I am (and have for years) been running a couple dozen LEDs off of shore power trough my converter which replaced the old interior "brake light" incandescent bulbs.

I know of no RV that has 12V A/C power. As I mentioned, the only caveat is that some OLDER converters (mine was from 1988) did have some unintentional A/C running over their DC output. You might post the make and model of converter that you are using to make sure that it is pure DC.
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:42 PM   #19
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This makes NO sense to me.

12 A/C? In a RV? A/C stands for alternating current which is not going to play well with a LED (which stands for light emitting diode). Diodes are used to permit current to flow only in one direction only and block the other.

Maybe somebody who owns a RV similar to yours can comment if they have a 12 A/C circuit in their coach.
There is no 12vac current in a motor home light wiring. They feed from the batteries which is charged by the converter. Some halogen LED bulb replacements are rated for 12vac/dc for use in landscape lighting which is 12vac. I just bought some for my landscape lights.

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Originally Posted by alvo View Post
If your lights are powered off of the house batteries, then the current is 12 v DC and a standard LED buld should work perfectly. If You're operating off of shore power that's been converted to 12 v and not the batteries, then it's AC power and a regular LED won't work, you need one that's capable of running on AC power. AC/DC bulbs will run on either DC or AC.
Not true. The current supplied from the converter to the batteries is 12vdc, not ac.
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:45 PM   #20
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If your lights are powered off of the house batteries, then the current is 12 v DC and a standard LED buld should work perfectly. If You're operating off of shore power that's been converted to 12 v and not the batteries, then it's AC power and a regular LED won't work, you need one that's capable of running on AC power. AC/DC bulbs will run on either DC or AC.
alvo
I disagree.
Methinks the converters used in RVs output only DC power.... (the only A/C power in most RVs is either 120V "shore power", 120V "generator power" OR 120V "inverter power").
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:46 PM   #21
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I use Star Lights. 8-30VDC High quality. Never a problem. They don't look like they have as much of a selection as they did years ago. That is the problem with LEDs, they last forever.

Search Results - Starlights Inc
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:55 PM   #22
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Thanks all.

To clarify.

I assumed that the only 12v in the coach was DC, not AC (hence the beginning of my confusion)

There are two kinds of these bulbs - one is surge protected for DC variation and one isn't as it requires a steady stream from a transformer (like the landscape lighting example)

So:

If I fried a bulb using 12vDC and he said I need the "other one" then one would assume I needed the "surge protected bulb"

Wouldn't one further assume that this would be the DC version? However he is saying I need the "AC/DC G4" which makes no sense at all to me.

The other issue in this is his English is a bit broken and my Chinese is really bad.
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Old 01-11-2016, 01:56 PM   #23
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If saying that I don't understand what you are saying is being snarky, I don't know what to tell you. There is a lot of misinformation being presented here which is not helping to understand or solve your problem.

I am (and have for years) been running a couple dozen LEDs off of shore power trough my converter which replaced the old interior "brake light" incandescent bulbs.

I know of no RV that has 12V A/C power. As I mentioned, the only caveat is that some OLDER converters (mine was from 1988) did have some unintentional A/C running over their DC output. You might post the make and model of converter that you are using to make sure that it is pure DC.
OK. Maybe we should take a step or 2 back for a little while. Reading the posts, I can understand both sides.
First, the original LEDs may not have been of very good quality, which is why they failed. Too small of a dropping resister can overheat and fail, or bad solder joints that fail. Most LEDs made for 12 volt automotive use, will handle voltages up to 20 for Short periods of time. A lot of people are using LEDs in their RVs and have been for many years without any problems.
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Old 01-11-2016, 02:00 PM   #24
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OK. Maybe we should take a step or 2 back for a little while. Reading the posts, I can understand both sides.
First, the original LEDs may not have been of very good quality, which is why they failed. Too small of a dropping resister can overheat and fail, or bad solder joints that fail. Most LEDs made for 12 volt automotive use, will handle voltages up to 20 for shot periods of time. A lot of people are using LEDs in their RVs and have been for many years without any problems.
Herein lies the key. I think the vendor is trying to say that I didn't order these (12vDC) and instead got the 12vACDC - but the product description belies this explanation (as they were listed as DC). To worsen the confusion, he is now directing me to 12vACDC which is all wrong.

In reality (after I have spent WAY too much time on this) I probably got a junk bulb as you suggested
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Old 01-11-2016, 02:12 PM   #25
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I think I found the answer. These are cheap because they are not surge protected 12vDC bulbs. He is saying (I think) I need surge protected 12vDC.

Followup message I received:

I am very sorry about you situation, but you should check the power supply of your RV, this item you purchase is only suitable with stability DC 12V power supply

vs the original message

Dear shaun, I advice you to purchase the AC/DC 12V bulbs, this item is only suitable with DC 12V steady, the power suppy unstable cause your bulbs burn out. would you please contact us to tell the detail and we will give you a solution. Rayhoo

The surge protection is discussed here:
Ask a LED Tech Articles - How to protect your 12V LED lights from over-voltage when using battery power
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Old 01-11-2016, 02:44 PM   #26
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Now that we have some of the misconceptions and misinformation out of the way and resolved...

Converters or batteries should supply 13 (or less) to 14.4 VDC. So there are no "overvoltages" or "surges" to protect from. As noted in the link I provided, a quality LED bulb will operate from 8-30 VDC.

So far in this troubleshooting matrix assuming you are using these bulbs in a 12VDC system you either have:

#1 Cheap, crappy Chinese LED's and this guy is just blowing smoke...
or
#2 Your converter is a model that does NOT provide filtered DC power. This is why I asked you to provide the make and model #. You can also look at your manual or go online to acquire this information.

Best of luck in resolving this issue.
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Old 01-11-2016, 02:47 PM   #27
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Thanks.

I think I put too much faith in this guy to begin with LOL
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Old 01-11-2016, 02:56 PM   #28
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120 VAC shore power is converted to 12 VAC with a transformer. It then needs to be rectified (diodes and filter capacitors) to turn it into DC. Since pretty much everything is built for 12 VDC, I would be surprised if things were wired to send 12 VAC anywhere, but it's possible.
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