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Old 01-11-2016, 03:25 PM   #29
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A lot of the cheaper design LED bulbs are set up for 12v DC. Typically the RV converter puts out 13 to 14.5 volts so you are running them at up to 20% above rated voltage. On these bulbs, there is no voltage regulation circuit that would mitigate the higher voltages and that is the primary reason they are cheaper to produce and why they overheat / self destruct. What you paid for them obviously has no bearing on what they cost to make.
As was suggested earlier, better designed bulbs will work over a broader range - often rated for 10-30 volts as they have a regulation circuit built in that reduces the voltage to a safe and stable level for the diodes regardless of the input voltage. These are the type of bulb you should look for when purchasing - they may or may not cost more but they are you best bet for reliability. The regulation circuit might also allow operation with 12v AC but you do not need that as your coach lighting is 12v DC. The Amazon guy - if he is smart - is suggesting that the AC/DC rated bulbs will definitely have a regulation circuit built in and likely wouldn't have failed. Good luck,
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Old 01-11-2016, 03:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmac View Post
A lot of the cheaper design LED bulbs are set up for 12v DC. Typically the RV converter puts out 13 to 14.5 volts so you are running them at up to 20% above rated voltage. On these bulbs, there is no voltage regulation circuit that would mitigate the higher voltages and that is the primary reason they are cheaper to produce and why they overheat / self destruct. What you paid for them obviously has no bearing on what they cost to make.
As was suggested earlier, better designed bulbs will work over a broader range - often rated for 10-30 volts as they have a regulation circuit built in that reduces the voltage to a safe and stable level for the diodes regardless of the input voltage. These are the type of bulb you should look for when purchasing - they may or may not cost more but they are you best bet for reliability. The regulation circuit might also allow operation with 12v AC but you do not need that as your coach lighting is 12v DC. The Amazon guy - if he is smart - is suggesting that the AC/DC rated bulbs will definitely have a regulation circuit built in and likely wouldn't have failed. Good luck,
Thanks Bob. Your post well covers everything I have learned all day obsessing over this (and then some) LOL - so I will await your response in the future before I do any digging ;-)

Seriously, thanks very much.

As for Amazon guy, yes - that is the only logical conclusion if he is in fact smart.
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Old 01-11-2016, 04:12 PM   #31
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Not trying to persuade one retailer over another, but I have purchased LED bulbs from M4Products.com. They have on their parts bag labels as (BA15S/1156/1141 12v DC (10-30v DC/AC). I have not had issues with them yet. RV Geeks have videos about replacing the original bulbs using M4 Products & you can get a 5% discount with them. They have a cheaper version but I have not tried those yet.
Good luck to you!


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Old 01-11-2016, 04:15 PM   #32
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If you are using these to replace bulbs in halogen ceiling fixtures and the interior of the fixture is reflective, the LED bulbs with regulation circuits typically have that circuit on the rear of the disc. The reflective coating then reflects the heat generated back on to the rear circuit and if there is limited air circulation in the fixture, will cause premature failure of the bulb unit. On most ceiling fixtures I have seen, there is really no way to exhaust the heat from the rear.
For that reason, you might consider replacing the entire fixture with a new LED fixture such as the 4.5" Radience ceiling mount fixture made by ITC and widely used by Winnebago and Newmar. That are about $15-$25 depending on where you get them. Check Camping World as they sell them. The actual LEDs are surface mounted on a circuit board in the fixture and are not replaceable - the entire fixture must be replaced. They are an excellent fixture - exremely bright - with a color temperature of 3000K and a 50K hour plus life expectancy.
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Old 01-11-2016, 04:18 PM   #33
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Bronccat
If you are using these to replace bulbs in halogen ceiling fixtures and the interior of the fixture is reflective, the LED bulbs with regulation circuits typically have that circuit on the rear of the disc. The reflective coating then reflects the heat generated back on to the rear circuit and if there is limited air circulation in the fixture, will cause premature failure of the bulb unit. On most ceiling fixtures I have seen, there is really no way to exhaust the heat from the rear.
For that reason, you might consider replacing the entire fixture with a new LED fixture such as the 4.5" Radience ceiling mount fixture made by ITC and widely used by Winnebago and Newmar. That are about $15-$25 depending on where you get them. Check Camping World as they sell them. The actual LEDs are surface mounted on a circuit board in the fixture and are not replaceable - the entire fixture must be replace. The are an excellent fixture - exremely bright - with a color temperature of 3000K and a 50K hour plus life expectancy.
Thanks

These are the under cabinet pucks with the reflectors and it was a very tight fit - so the same principle likely applies (perhaps more so)
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Old 01-11-2016, 04:20 PM   #34
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Not trying to persuade one retailer over another, but I have purchased LED bulbs from M4Products.com. They have on their parts bag labels as (BA15S/1156/1141 12v DC (10-30v DC/AC). I have not had issues with them yet. RV Geeks have videos about replacing the original bulbs using M4 Products & you can get a 5% discount with them. They have a cheaper version but I have not tried those yet.
Good luck to you!


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Thanks Ralph!
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:48 PM   #35
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DC or AC/DC 12v G4 bulbs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmac View Post
Bronccat
If you are using these to replace bulbs in halogen ceiling fixtures and the interior of the fixture is reflective, the LED bulbs with regulation circuits typically have that circuit on the rear of the disc. The reflective coating then reflects the heat generated back on to the rear circuit and if there is limited air circulation in the fixture, will cause premature failure of the bulb unit. On most ceiling fixtures I have seen, there is really no way to exhaust the heat from the rear.
For that reason, you might consider replacing the entire fixture with a new LED fixture such as the 4.5" Radience ceiling mount fixture made by ITC and widely used by Winnebago and Newmar. That are about $15-$25 depending on where you get them. Check Camping World as they sell them. The actual LEDs are surface mounted on a circuit board in the fixture and are not replaceable - the entire fixture must be replaced. They are an excellent fixture - exremely bright - with a color temperature of 3000K and a 50K hour plus life expectancy.

The heat generated by an LED is so low that it can barely be felt. I learned a lot from fulltimers and serious boaters. The poorly made ones will have very small circuit elements on the back side, diodes and resistors etc. The good ones have more robust (larger) circuit elements. I have not had an LED failure yet on any of the original puck light fixtures that were halogen
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:30 PM   #36
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DC or AC/DC 12v G4 bulbs?

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Hi Frank

One ran for 5 hours or so prior to melt down, the other made it overnight.

This says "circuit element failure". LEDs will fail individually and there are several on each puck plug in type.
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:48 PM   #37
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Circuit side

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Old 01-12-2016, 09:01 AM   #38
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Not reading all posts but the difference may be that the ac/dc units have an internal power supply consisting of maybe diodes cap and regulator or less to allow them to be used in place of landscape bulbs that just have a transformer supply.
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Old 01-12-2016, 09:40 AM   #39
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The Monaco Knight has an excellent and clean charging system. The 12 volts provided should not be a problem.

If an LED melted it had a serious problem with the associated components. A led itself is a rather delicate device and will burn open like a fuse versus melting in most cases.

Some of these LED's do get very warm or even hot due to the components. I would put one in and leave the thing hanging out so you can feel the temps. Those pucks are enclosed as mentioned. Heck, the led could have shorted against something depending on the physical design.

I'm a certified electronic tech and have worked in the 12 volt automotive electrical world for over 40 years now. It is possible you had a defective bulb or even a couple of them.

I have used close to 100 led's between my RV and landscaping. Tons of led strips too. I don't recall many failures but there have been a couple.

The AC/DC model of bulb should not be a factor. DC is what your rv has. It would be a good thing to actually measure the voltage on the socket with the bulb in and turned on. As a tech I just like to have this information for reference.

If you find the led is getting a bit warm to the touch with it hanging out then close it up and monitor the situation. Solid state electronics do not like excessive heat.

If you find there is a bit of heat build up then drilling some vent holes in the back side might do the trick. I would be surprised if they get that hot though.
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:28 PM   #40
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Thanks so much.

It was definitely hot. Also, it wasn't the disk type, it was the barrel type - which was my first mistake.

I use type A LEDs all over my house + LED tape + random 12v applications and as you said - pretty bullet proof.

I'm going to start over with a disk type in the same puck and see what happens.
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Old 01-12-2016, 03:44 PM   #41
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I used the disk types in my fixtures. I bet the round ones get plenty hot.
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Old 01-12-2016, 05:17 PM   #42
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Yes, plenty lol

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