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Old 06-12-2015, 02:05 PM   #15
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I'd do this in a nano-second. In fact, I plan to start looking for a new toad in the fall using this exact strategy.

Before my last career as a photographer, I spent 30 years as a high tech sales manager. I've been hosed by F100 companies. "A" large online reseller wanted me to give them $10 million worth of free equipment because they were "A" and we weren't. A defense contractor messed with me for 2 years so they could grind down the OEM for 20 years of free service & maintenance. An engineering dept dean at a top 100 university in the US wanted free equipment because "they were one of the Top 100." Getting hosed is part of the sales game. The ones who don't want to play will opt-out quickly. The ones who play will have inventory they want to turn quickly.

It's all a game, chill and don't take everything personally.
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Old 06-12-2015, 02:17 PM   #16
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As a thought it might not hurt to add a line that you have cash or approved financing as an indication you are not just window shopping.
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Old 06-12-2015, 02:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ciderdog View Post
As a thought it might not hurt to add a line that you have cash or approved financing as an indication you are not just window shopping.
Now that's what I'm talking about!!! Great feedback!
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:28 PM   #18
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I would also suggest a deadline for their response by which time you'll be evaluating all the responses received by then and only from those will you be making your final decision. i.e. respond by "x" date, our you are out!
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:31 PM   #19
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BeerLover, your name says it all.

What you are doing is basically how I have purchased every vehicle I have owned in the last 20+ years. Only time I ever go to a dealership is to look at a vehicle or do a test drive, but never buy. Here is what has worked for me.

The big difference in your approach and mine. I search online for a dealers inventory, and see who has what. Typically I know more about their inventory then they do after I get done. Then I download the options list from a manufacture, this goes for MH's, cars, trucks, whatever. Circle everything I want.

Then CALL each dealership and speak with a sales person. Tell the sales person am looking for a certain rig. Then ask said sales person for his email. Then tell said sales person, will email them the list of what I want. Please put together your best deal possible for me. Am very clear, won't be coming to see them, don't want a walk through, already know what I want, just shopping around for the best price, price is key. Also ask them to contact me via email only, tell them my boss does not like me taking a lot of personal calls at work, good thing I am the boss, but they don't know that.

Will usually put it out to bid to 20 places with a car or truck, but a MH you might not be able to find more than 10. Once I get the bids back, then start comparing rig to rig, see which has what. Usually have to prod a few sales guys along the way, as some are pretty bad about following up or are just plain lazy.

Once I find the right price for me, which typically is some arbitrary price I come up with via my calculator, that is well below the lowest price received so far. Send out another set of emails to all the sales guys, saying here is the best price I have, can you all please take another look at your numbers and see what you can do. Make sure you stress to each sales person, how much you have enjoyed working with him/her and how much you appreciate their time and energy they are spending on this with you. Have to throw them some love as your grind them or they lose their motivation to deal.

Once you finally get a price you are good with, then you tell them hey, got one more thing I need and we can call this a deal. You have to deliver the rig to my house/office/wherever you want it delivered. All of them will say sure, no problem. Then say OK Deal. This is where you tell the sales person to have the paperwork person contact you via email to do your paperwork.

I do 100% of my paperwork via email, sometimes some dealers what to fedex you stuff, but that is only about 20% of the time, but they pick up the nickle for that.

So far, only had 1 vehicle that had a problem when it showed up, and that one got sent back, with the correct one coming back a couple days later. The dealer tired the ole switch-o-change-o.

This may sound like a lot of work, but it really is not. This is the same way we bid out our General Construction projects to subcontractors. Usually just cut & paste on the emails, so once you write it once, just have to change email address.

The problem with email blasts, who knows where that email is going to end up, might just get dumped on someones desk, or just tossed in trash. We found doing email/fax blasts for projects to bid got us very little coverage, but once we called and spoke with someone, we got to a 95%+ bid coverage.

Don, you are correct this does take away the interaction process, but so far I have had zero problems getting the deal I want. Also, by removing the interaction process, this makes for a cleaner transaction, no listening to stories and not as many lies to be told. Oh and if there is a lie, its all in writing, no he said she said BS.

Good luck!
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Old 06-13-2015, 07:24 AM   #20
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A couple of thoughts....

I like the idea of leveraging e-mails, heaven knows businesses do that all the time. Plus, it controls their access to you.

OTOH, there are about 3 MH dealerships in the entire US I would consider doing business with so it doesn't take an email. Since the production rates of MH's are low and because the quality variance is so high, I'm going to have to see/touch/feel/drive a specific unit. Which means I have to go to the dealership anyway. Lastly, a story from the business I retired from.

People shop airline tickets mostly by price. Then, when they are late/lost luggage/poor service/shoddy seat accommodations, etc. they are unhappy. I would tell them, if all you shop is price, then you already got what you were shopping for. Why would you complain about things that you weren't shopping for?

IMHO
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Old 06-13-2015, 09:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
I think your approach is a sad sign of the times. People have lost their ability to communicate with others, in person. If I got your email, I would delete and move on, knowing exactly what you're doing. You say you're within driving distance, how about doing it the old fashion way, drive to the dealer, see what they have in stock, compare the options and ACTUALLY look at the colors you might like.

Why? So you can be sucked down that hole of "come sit at my desk, so I can suck the life out of you while I figure out how much I can charge you?"

You might think this is a sad sign of the times, but just because this fellow wants to leverage the advantage of today's technology isn't the sad part.

If you ask me the sad part is poorly made rv's, sold for too much money.

Look, places like MHSRV and PPL and RV One (whom i'd never trust) and RV Wholesale and a whole host of other dealerships have totally latched onto the idea of doing business abroad leveraging electronic communication. MHSRV is HUGE - and has decent prices to begin with.

I say:
  1. Crack open a beer.
  2. Research which dealers in the US other thor OUTLAW owners have enjoyed doing business with.
  3. Get a quote from RV One, and RV Wholesalers - they INVITE you to do this anyway!
  4. Get a quote from MHRSV - Talk to "cowboy" - people seem to like him
  5. Now shop local and nearby, recommended dealers

I personally like to start by phone. I like to get to a specific sales person, get my name in front of them, and get their email address. I tell them who I am, what I'm looking for, and the fact that I would like a price with options. I get their email, and email them WHILE I'm ON THE PHONE "Did you get it? ok great, that's my email, so all you have to do is reply sir, and thanks - or call me if you prefer"

When they call back with a price, I simply tell them what I was thinking on the price. "Sir, thanks so much for getting back to me, I'm thinking you could sell it to me for $xxxxx"

I'll tell you a short story.

I saved over 22,000 dollars, I'll repeat, $22,000 by picking up the phone and calling a recommended dealer (recommended by another Airstream owner) and driving 7 hours to show up on their doorstep after some email back and forth)

And I didn't save $22,000 because I chewed on the sales man butt. I didn't save 22 because I used this sad sign of the time email (which I did use, but it wasn't sad). I didn't save $22,000 because of my keen negotiating tactics.

I saved $22,000 because my local (and only) dealer posted a FAKE LINE ITEM package on their MSRP sheet to falsely boost the MSRP by $8500!!!! I know the line item was fake because I called airstream directly and asked.

I visited that local shop FIRST, and IN PERSON. The salesman was a total fruitcake. Not only was he unknowledgeable on the unit, he certainly couldn't explain what was included in the fake package on the msrp sheet.

I tried to meet with his boss while ONSITE - to which the salesman avoided completely. I waited for 45 minutes to talk to his boss about price and the fake package - no show.

I gave the guy my number and asked if he would please call me with a quote for two models (same model, different color interiors - both of which he didn't have on site to see - I used the catalog / manufacturers website on my mobile device as a reference while sitting in their chairs waiting for the boss who never appeared).

By the time they "got around" to calling me back, I was sitting at the desk of another dealer, some 7 hours drive away, who had the model I wanted, AND offered me a price that was right on with no haggling. No Joke, they called me WHILE I was with the other dealer, in front of the sales guy, with the paperwork in front of me and a pen in my hand.

They were excited to offer me such an amazing deal he said..... his price you ask?? +$22,000 from the deal in front of me. That's a big difference at the TT price range level. Heck his great price was STILL $2000 ABOVE msrp

"Thanks for the info" - click / sound of signature on paper

If anything is a sad sign of the times, it's dealers who waste a ton of your time, trump up MSRP's, offer terrible deals up front, won't find their bosses, and wait a week and a half to call you back, then have terrible reviews online for their service department.

RV Dealers and salesmen have come to EXPECT tire kickers. This is not a Nissan Maxima. I bet the ratio is something like 80% tire kickers, 20% might be serious, 5% get real serious, 1% buy. + the dealers advertise like crazy to bring people in to kick tires. If they even made your email list, then they somehow invited you, their ad dollars are working to get them an opportunity to do some business. If they didn't want emails and phone calls from a distance, they would stick to advertising on bill boards locally.

Buy the thing your own way man, the old timers aren't with the times - consequently, the dealers aren't playing by the old rules either.

To the old timers defense - Trust me, I prefer their old way - where a handshake meant something, in person communication was worth something - but it just ain't that way, most of the time, these days. Dealers take advantage of you showing up in person - keep your emotions in check when you visit in person.

And it's up to you to educate yourself. I can only imagine how many people have been sucked into fake MSRP line items locally.

I do feel that a phone call is a nice start though over a cold email - but I'm not here to talk you out of trying it your way. For me personally, I like to gauge the intelligence level and personality type right up front on the phone.

As to your email address, if you love beer, you love beer - this isn't a deal to buy 100 boeing 737's - just make a wisecrack that you love beer on the phone, at least they will remember you (they love beer too)!! I guarantee you that there is some rv salesman somewhere who has the personal email address of ieatroadkill@hotmail.com

One more thing, I WOULD pay more than the lowest price offered simply because I like another dealer better - but it still needs to be a decent and fair deal.

Head into the thors owners forums, and ASK - who knows a dealer they like that sells outlaws. You'll get some warm invites with names of salespeople and you can say you were recommended by so and so - that really does help warm up the thing.
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Old 06-15-2015, 01:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plasma800 View Post
Why? So you can be sucked down that hole of "come sit at my desk, so I can suck the life out of you while I figure out how much I can charge you?"

You might think this is a sad sign of the times, but just because this fellow wants to leverage the advantage of today's technology isn't the sad part.

If you ask me the sad part is poorly made rv's, sold for too much money.

Look, places like MHSRV and PPL and RV One (whom i'd never trust) and RV Wholesale and a whole host of other dealerships have totally latched onto the idea of doing business abroad leveraging electronic communication. MHSRV is HUGE - and has decent prices to begin with.

I say:
  1. Crack open a beer.
  2. Research which dealers in the US other thor OUTLAW owners have enjoyed doing business with.
  3. Get a quote from RV One, and RV Wholesalers - they INVITE you to do this anyway!
  4. Get a quote from MHRSV - Talk to "cowboy" - people seem to like him
  5. Now shop local and nearby, recommended dealers

I personally like to start by phone. I like to get to a specific sales person, get my name in front of them, and get their email address. I tell them who I am, what I'm looking for, and the fact that I would like a price with options. I get their email, and email them WHILE I'm ON THE PHONE "Did you get it? ok great, that's my email, so all you have to do is reply sir, and thanks - or call me if you prefer"

When they call back with a price, I simply tell them what I was thinking on the price. "Sir, thanks so much for getting back to me, I'm thinking you could sell it to me for $xxxxx"

I'll tell you a short story.

I saved over 22,000 dollars, I'll repeat, $22,000 by picking up the phone and calling a recommended dealer (recommended by another Airstream owner) and driving 7 hours to show up on their doorstep after some email back and forth)

And I didn't save $22,000 because I chewed on the sales man butt. I didn't save 22 because I used this sad sign of the time email (which I did use, but it wasn't sad). I didn't save $22,000 because of my keen negotiating tactics.

I saved $22,000 because my local (and only) dealer posted a FAKE LINE ITEM package on their MSRP sheet to falsely boost the MSRP by $8500!!!! I know the line item was fake because I called airstream directly and asked.

I visited that local shop FIRST, and IN PERSON. The salesman was a total fruitcake. Not only was he unknowledgeable on the unit, he certainly couldn't explain what was included in the fake package on the msrp sheet.

I tried to meet with his boss while ONSITE - to which the salesman avoided completely. I waited for 45 minutes to talk to his boss about price and the fake package - no show.

I gave the guy my number and asked if he would please call me with a quote for two models (same model, different color interiors - both of which he didn't have on site to see - I used the catalog / manufacturers website on my mobile device as a reference while sitting in their chairs waiting for the boss who never appeared).

By the time they "got around" to calling me back, I was sitting at the desk of another dealer, some 7 hours drive away, who had the model I wanted, AND offered me a price that was right on with no haggling. No Joke, they called me WHILE I was with the other dealer, in front of the sales guy, with the paperwork in front of me and a pen in my hand.

They were excited to offer me such an amazing deal he said..... his price you ask?? +$22,000 from the deal in front of me. That's a big difference at the TT price range level. Heck his great price was STILL $2000 ABOVE msrp

"Thanks for the info" - click / sound of signature on paper

If anything is a sad sign of the times, it's dealers who waste a ton of your time, trump up MSRP's, offer terrible deals up front, won't find their bosses, and wait a week and a half to call you back, then have terrible reviews online for their service department.

RV Dealers and salesmen have come to EXPECT tire kickers. This is not a Nissan Maxima. I bet the ratio is something like 80% tire kickers, 20% might be serious, 5% get real serious, 1% buy. + the dealers advertise like crazy to bring people in to kick tires. If they even made your email list, then they somehow invited you, their ad dollars are working to get them an opportunity to do some business. If they didn't want emails and phone calls from a distance, they would stick to advertising on bill boards locally.

Buy the thing your own way man, the old timers aren't with the times - consequently, the dealers aren't playing by the old rules either.

To the old timers defense - Trust me, I prefer their old way - where a handshake meant something, in person communication was worth something - but it just ain't that way, most of the time, these days. Dealers take advantage of you showing up in person - keep your emotions in check when you visit in person.

And it's up to you to educate yourself. I can only imagine how many people have been sucked into fake MSRP line items locally.

I do feel that a phone call is a nice start though over a cold email - but I'm not here to talk you out of trying it your way. For me personally, I like to gauge the intelligence level and personality type right up front on the phone.

As to your email address, if you love beer, you love beer - this isn't a deal to buy 100 boeing 737's - just make a wisecrack that you love beer on the phone, at least they will remember you (they love beer too)!! I guarantee you that there is some rv salesman somewhere who has the personal email address of ieatroadkill@hotmail.com

One more thing, I WOULD pay more than the lowest price offered simply because I like another dealer better - but it still needs to be a decent and fair deal.

Head into the thors owners forums, and ASK - who knows a dealer they like that sells outlaws. You'll get some warm invites with names of salespeople and you can say you were recommended by so and so - that really does help warm up the thing.
Great advice!!! I will adjust my approach and "giv'r a rip"!
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Old 06-15-2015, 06:31 PM   #23
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"plasma800".....Only an idiot allows himself to be sucked down the hole you're talking about....again....the problem is the lack of verbal skills caused by spending more time typing on your phone then speaking to other human beings in person.

Six months from now we'll be reading about how the OP is upset that the local dealership doesn't want to repair his coach because he bought it a hundred miles away to save $150.00!
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Old 06-15-2015, 10:14 PM   #24
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Two words of advice:

Buy Used.


Two more words of advice:


Pay Cash.


Last two words:


Save ALOT.
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Old 06-15-2015, 11:12 PM   #25
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I agree with Dutchstar Don. Maybe I am the odd one out, but I enjoy the negotiating and the transaction. I actually appreciate a vested interest in a dealer in making a sound deal, and yes, I want the dealer to make a profit. The last dealer I bought my class A from, took the time to show me the rig when they were closed. That special attention meant a lot to me. Although the unit was used, he serviced the unit, had it inspected with an independent report, and then drove it to my office for my inspection, effectively earning my business.
I do buy used, but I will always finance, simply I want the bank to take the risk with me having the cash in the bank, plus I can make more on my money than the 2.4% interest rate on the note. That said, plan on payoff in five years. However, that said, that 2016 Dutchstar at Tom Lindstrom's sure does look good.


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Old 06-15-2015, 11:17 PM   #26
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Never finance a depreciating asset.

MBA.
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Old 06-16-2015, 06:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
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Never finance a depreciating asset. MBA.
Unfortunately that includes many S&B house these days. That being said, money is very cheap these days.
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Old 06-16-2015, 07:31 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
"plasma800".....Only an idiot allows himself to be sucked down the hole you're talking about....again....the problem is the lack of verbal skills caused by spending more time typing on your phone then speaking to other human beings in person.

Six months from now we'll be reading about how the OP is upset that the local dealership doesn't want to repair his coach because he bought it a hundred miles away to save $150.00!

Just tell the local dealer you just moved there.. how's that for verbal communication skills?

Calm down Don, everything is fine. Nothing wrong with a little price shopping, if only to keep your local honest.
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