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Old 07-05-2012, 10:49 AM   #15
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Hi Robert L,
For me, I contact the dealer, manufacturer and anyone else who can provide information that allows an opinion to be formed and decisions to be made. If possible, consider putting the coach order on hold or canceling the order until you get the information you need to proceed.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by RSchleder View Post
It means your diesel engine will require the use of DEF. There will be a separate tank which holds enough DEF for several thousand miles before you get a dash signal to add more fluid. Your engine will be very clean burning and you'll need to spend $10-$12 per gal every so often to buy a gal of DEF.
Hardly $10-12. NAPA in Iowa City list at $4.39/gal NAPA AUTO PARTS | FIND A PRODUCTand the national average is $2.88/gal. DEF Pump Price Up 15 Cents Since February - Truckinginfo.com. Pliot Flying J list at the pump price in Iowa at $2.899/ gal. Pilot Flying J
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:36 AM   #17
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I will NEVER buy a coach with an engine that uses DEF. I'll keep buying used as long as I'm motorhoming.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:44 AM   #18
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I've not had an issue with my new def equipped 400 hp 800 lbft 6.7L engine
nor has my buddy in his new duramax..unfortunately the EPA has run amok with junk science and those of you that 'worship' global warming so it's here to stay.

I usually use the def pumps as it's easier to fill and cheaper @ about $2.79/gal....
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:51 AM   #19
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This DEF argument stuff is just SCARY. Reminds me of the MTBE fiasco.

The government demands something (this time for pollution and efficiency standards) - but only time will tell if the solution is worse than the original issue.

Seems like I feel better and better about getting a gas powered MH everyday and I will be keeping my "old" Dodge with a 5.9 running as long as I can.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:17 PM   #20
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I find it interesting that some folks seem to feel that DEF should be avoided at all costs! Not that that is a bad thing, but if it is from a cost perspective it's not really a big issue. I own a 2012 coach with DEF and it is a non issue for me. In the scope of all other costs and time spent to maintain the system it's minimal.

DEF has a burn rate of about 2% vs Diesel so when I burn through my 100 gallon tank I will have used about 2 gallons of DEF. If diesel is $3.75 per gallon to re- fill the tank will be $375.00. To fill the DEF at $2,88 per gallon it would cost an additional $5.76 to top it off.

After 3,300 miles I have burned about 308 gallons of diesel and my DEF tank, which holds 12 gallons, is at 1/2 full. At $3.75 I have spent over $1,100 on diesel and to refill the DEF it will cost $17.28 at $2.88. All of these miles have been driven in tempatures around 90 or higher.

No soot on toad, back of coach, etc.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:42 PM   #21
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This DEF argument stuff is just SCARY. Reminds me of the MTBE fiasco.

The government demands something (this time for pollution and efficiency standards) - but only time will tell if the solution is worse than the original issue.
Comparing aqueous urea to MTBE?? They're not even in the same league since, unlike MTBE's penchant for leaching into and polluting ground water, dry and aqueous urea has intentionally been placed on/in the ground for many, many decades. It's used by farmers as a nitrogen-based fertilizer - see HERE.

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Old 07-05-2012, 02:03 PM   #22
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Comparing aqueous urea to MTBE?? They're not even in the same league since, unlike MTBE's penchant for leaching into and polluting ground water, dry and aqueous urea has intentionally been placed on/in the ground for many, many decades. It's used by farmers as a nitrogen-based fertilizer - see HERE.

Rusty
I was just saying that Government can legislate some bad stuff...
Too bad Navistar had a good idea that they couldn't execute

BTW - MTBE was supposed to be our friend too...an organic compound, used as a simple and less poisonous lead alternative in fuel for older engines and as a solvent...it is derived from natural gas, and wasn't such a villain in the recent past.

Quote:
" According to the IARC, a cancer research agency of the World Health Organization, MTBE is not classified as a human carcinogen. MTBE can be tasted in water at concentrations of 5 15 g/l.[12]
Methyl tert-butyl ether - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for agriculture uses, I remember a little thing called DDT being used by farmers too.

So, we will take the DEF - inject it into the Diesel exhaust via the SCR (multilayered Catalysts)...and Viola' - happy healthy exhaust.
We like to think we know everything - but we don't.

I'm just sayin'...
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:22 PM   #23
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HERE is the MSDS on DEF.

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Old 07-05-2012, 02:52 PM   #24
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As someone who has a 2013 Holiday Rambler with the Maxxforce 10 engine on order with the factory, what does this mean for me?
Robert, That won't mean anything for you. Just go ahead and use the engine as intended and you'll be fine.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:21 PM   #25
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I find it interesting that some folks seem to feel that DEF should be avoided at all costs! Not that that is a bad thing, but if it is from a cost perspective it's not really a big issue. I own a 2012 coach with DEF and it is a non issue for me. In the scope of all other costs and time spent to maintain the system it's minimal.

DEF has a burn rate of about 2% vs Diesel so when I burn through my 100 gallon tank I will have used about 2 gallons of DEF. If diesel is $3.75 per gallon to re- fill the tank will be $375.00. To fill the DEF at $2,88 per gallon it would cost an additional $5.76 to top it off.

After 3,300 miles I have burned about 308 gallons of diesel and my DEF tank, which holds 12 gallons, is at 1/2 full. At $3.75 I have spent over $1,100 on diesel and to refill the DEF it will cost $17.28 at $2.88. All of these miles have been driven in tempatures around 90 or higher.

No soot on toad, back of coach, etc.
Right on.
We've got 14K miles on 2011 Itasca Ellipse, the cost of DEF, even buying the expensive 2.5gal containers vs filling at the pump is essentially lost behind the decimal in the cost of operating one of these rigs. I lived thru the early emmissions on cars in the 70's and was initially somewhat worried about 2010 EPA for diesels, but we've had no issues. So far still goes in the "we'd do it again" category. Time and mileage will tell.

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Old 07-05-2012, 11:09 PM   #26
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I was told that the chassis cost to the motorcoach builders went up $15,000 for the added cost of the DEP system. If that is true, there is a significant cost for DEP. If not, I have been misled.
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:36 PM   #27
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Go to Navistar Stock Drops 8% After Friday’s Webcast | RV Business for the latest information.
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:39 PM   #28
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DEF was $2.69/gallon today at Pilot, just west of St. Louis on I44, exit 256/257.
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