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Old 10-07-2014, 07:18 PM   #1
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DEF troubles.

On second to last fuel fill up I must have not tightened up the lid on the def tank. We may drove in the rain for about 120 miles with the lid off. I noticed it after a check engine light and stopping to refuel and to add def as the tank was about 1/3 full. Checked the codes and they were:

SPN 3361

SPN 4376

SPN 4346

SPN 3360

SPN 3031

They are all related to the DEF system. Would leaving the lid off cause all of these fault codes?

We drove the coach for more than 100 miles home with no apparent problems.

So, what do I do? We have big trip planned next week.

I have someone coming to look at it tomorrow. And, I'll call our local diesel shop.






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Old 10-07-2014, 07:46 PM   #2
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I would drain the tank, replace the cap and see what happens. I had to drain mine after getting a questionable box of Blue DEF from Walmart. I siphoned it out and refilled. DEF is primarily water (67%).
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:50 PM   #3
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On second to last fuel fill up I must have not tightened up the lid on the def tank. We may drove in the rain for about 120 miles with the lid off. I noticed it after a check engine light and stopping to refuel and to add def as the tank was about 1/3 full. Checked the codes and they were: SPN 3361 SPN 4376 SPN 4346 SPN 3360 SPN 3031 They are all related to the DEF system. Would leaving the lid off cause all of these fault codes? We drove the coach for more than 100 miles home with no apparent problems. So, what do I do? We have big trip planned next week. I have someone coming to look at it tomorrow. And, I'll call our local diesel shop. 2013 FleetWood Expedition 38B
Def systems have a filter that will take care of a great deal if particulates. If water got in to the tank that might cause some dilution (for which you should get an error if the dilution was too great). Maybe also some salt or other contamination from road dirt. (Chemical contamination that is). If you added def and the warnings went away you likely diluted the tank back to acceptable concentration limits. You are likely ok - but if you want to be sure drain the def tank (siphon using clean tubing - best like clear plastic kind you can buy in home brew shops. Then fill with fresh DEF . Def is not that nasty - just urea. But do try to keep off your hands and wash afterwards - the biggest risk being some potential for skin irritation
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:12 PM   #4
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DEF troubles.

Thank you for the ideas. Will the fault codes resolve by themselves?


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Old 10-07-2014, 11:16 PM   #5
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If the fault no longer exists, the codes will reset after "X" amount of engine start/stops. I can't tell you how many it will take. I would only be guessing, but probably upwards of 20.
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Old 10-08-2014, 01:02 AM   #6
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Agree that removing the suspect DEF and then refilling is a good idea to troubleshoot the problem. DEF has a pH in the range of 9.5-9.75 (alkaline) and can cause skin irritation if you have sensitive skin. I've handled a lot of liquid DEF and have not had a problem, but wearing gloves is good common sense. DEF is 32.5% urea and is not toxic but I don't recommend siphoning by mouth and don't get in your eyes.

Confirm that diesel was not accidently put in your DEF tank. Fresh DEF is odorless except for a very slight ammonia component.

Dilute the DEF that is removed 10 to 1 or more and use it as a fertilizer on leafy plants. Don't pour it down the drain or in areas that runoff to streams or lakes as it can cause problems with algae growth.

Refill your tank with known good DEF. It is possible that short term operation with the cap off in rainy conditions caused the issue by dilution. If so, it is unlikely to have caused any long term issues with your SCR system since it was operated for only a short time. It is highly unlikely that enough contamination entered the open cap in a short time to cause a problem. Most contaminants that cause serious problems with an SCR system (salts, metallic ions) are soluble and are not removed by a particulate filter.

If this does not fix the problem, the likely suspects for a SCR faults (in order) are bad electrical connections (always check these first) a bad DEF pump, bad NOx sensors used in the control system, a pinched or damaged DEF line, and a plugged DEF filter. All should be covered under warranty since they are part of the emissions control system, but I'm not an expert on MH warranties.

It is also possible that a DEF refill with diluted (or otherwise ineffective DEF) caused the problem. We recommend carefully verifying the seal on any retail container of DEF prior to dispensing In your DEF tank.

Good luck resolving this, and let us know how it turns out.

Best regards,
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:44 AM   #7
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DEF troubles.

Doctor DEF,
Thank you and everyone else. No, diesel was not put in the DEF tank.

I am having a diesel mechanic look at it today. He is going to check the electrical. I am going to ask him to clear the faults.

I am going to siphon out the tank and replace with new DEF. I buy all of the DEF, 2.5 gallons each, from Wally mkt. The containers have all been sealed.

I have ordered a scan guage, but it won't be here for a few more days.

It is not showing the "dPf is plugged up" light on the dash.

I am worried about the engine shutting down though if I don't get this sorted.

Walt B


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Old 10-08-2014, 08:11 PM   #8
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Well, it turns out that is the controller for the def pump. It got full of water and shorted out. Nothing to do with the loose tank lid. Diagnosed by a Cummins tech and his laptop. Most impressive. We'll see tomorrow if it is the fix.


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Old 10-08-2014, 11:07 PM   #9
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Well, it turns out that is the controller for the def pump. It got full of water and shorted out. Nothing to do with the loose tank lid. Diagnosed by a Cummins tech and his laptop. Most impressive. We'll see tomorrow if it is the fix. 2013 FleetWood Expedition 38B
Earlier this summer I had an engine shutdiwn that was ultimately traced to a bad def pump. Coincidence that you have a similar problem when we both have expeditions. Since the pump was replaced though the engine has just purred going down the road ...
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:27 AM   #10
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Yes. They are going to replace the entire pump and part of the wiring harness. And, under warranty! One shop I called said no. Slept good last night.


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Old 10-09-2014, 12:33 PM   #11
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BTW, MNtraveler
Did you have to replace the fuel pump, known diode problem, on your generator too? Onan QD8000.


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Old 10-09-2014, 02:06 PM   #12
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Glad to hear the repair is straightforward and covered under warranty.
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:39 PM   #13
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BTW, MNtraveler Did you have to replace the fuel pump, known diode problem, on your generator too? Onan QD8000. 2013 FleetWood Expedition 38B
Yes the fuel pump was replaced ... I had not heard about a known problem with the pump :-(. . Also have not heard about a genny problem - though my generator has been working flawlessly so far - use it often, up to about 250 hrs or so now ...
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Old 10-10-2014, 07:35 PM   #14
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DEF troubles.

And, does your water heater fit in it's compartment? Ours was jammed into it's space that was too short and the bypass valve was too close to turn, and some of the plumbing was bent.


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