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Old 11-07-2018, 08:59 AM   #1
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Detroit Diesel Series 60 MPG

May have missed it while searching, but not much info on DD Series 60 engines and MPG.

See lots of threads here, and under Cummins and CAT Power section, on MPG's by various owner's.

If you have a DD Series 60, please share your Coach Model, Year, Length, Toad and your MPG.

Researching coaches with larger block engines, and while MPG is a small part of my decision process, it is non the less a part of it!

TIA, and best to all,
Smitty
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Old 11-07-2018, 10:02 AM   #2
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There are not a lot of Detroit Diesel engines in motor coaches (buses, yes) - which is why there is not a lot of response here. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them, and to the contrary don't assume that the lack of postings means they are problem free. IMO it just the lack of owners with theses engines is why there are so few postings). Personally I would go with a Cummins or CAT engine as they are more common and you will be able to get more support on-line.

Here's a link to history and engine sizes/issues within the Series 60 family. https://highwayandheavyparts.com/n-1...spotlight.html
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:03 PM   #3
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Detroit Series 60

05 Monaco Signature, 45ft., Subaru Outback toad, 6 mpg. Engine has 50K on it. I have put 10K on it. No issues. It will climb a hill.
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Old 11-07-2018, 12:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
May have missed it while searching, but not much info on DD Series 60 engines and MPG.

See lots of threads here, and under Cummins and CAT Power section, on MPG's by various owner's.

If you have a DD Series 60, please share your Coach Model, Year, Length, Toad and your MPG.

Researching coaches with larger block engines, and while MPG is a small part of my decision process, it is non the less a part of it!

TIA, and best to all,
Smitty
Had a 95 Newell Series 60, Samurai toad, 7.0 mpg about 46000 lbs overall. Present coach has Cummins ISM, about 43000 lbs overall, 7.0 mpg.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:17 PM   #5
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I was told there is no Detroit Engine section here because there weren't enough issues to warrant it.
Mine runs trouble free with massive pulling power, better than the Cummins 600 according to a friend who has had both.


Getting 7mpg pulling anything.
Climbs hills like a beast
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:10 PM   #6
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2005 DD Series 60 here. Only have about 97,000 miles on it, only 20k of which did we log (we're the 3rd owners.) 515 hp with ZF Meritor 12 speed Automated Manual Transmission. 6.5mpg at 55mph, 6 mpg at 65mph, 5.5 mpg at 70mph. Doesn't really matter what it is towing, but most we've ever towed is about 10,000lbs and it is rated for 40,000lbs.

It doesn't sweat the mountains.

You will find more information on these engines on the truck forums. Get much newer than '05 and you start getting more emissions equipment added, which some say is problematic. Older is actually better in these engines. The old 12Liter series 60s were some of the best. The early 14L like ours are pretty good. When you get in later models the emissions system needs to be watched carefully.
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Old 11-07-2018, 10:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
May have missed it while searching, but not much info on DD Series 60 engines and MPG.

See lots of threads here, and under Cummins and CAT Power section, on MPG's by various owner's.

If you have a DD Series 60, please share your Coach Model, Year, Length, Toad and your MPG.

Researching coaches with larger block engines, and while MPG is a small part of my decision process, it is non the less a part of it!

TIA, and best to all,
Smitty
Well Smitty,
This info probably wonít help your inquiry much at all but, way back in my FD days of driving, maintaining, working on, outfitting, and teaching all about fire trucks, the majority of our fleet was equipped with the Detroit Series 60. We normally utilized two versions. One was the 425-450HP, and the other was the 500 HP version. At the time of my retirement, we had around a hundred Series 60ís in service in both active and reserve rigs.
OUTSTANDING engines with outstanding dependability. Now, donít get discouraged by this but, one of my many jobs was to keep track of our fuel mileage in many of our districts. I knew the figures werenít gonna be good but, I didnít know they be as bad as I found. For the most part, we had grand totals of between 2.1 and 2.8 mpg.
Like I said, donít get discouraged at these figures. We were running 38,000-40,000 lb. curb weight Engines and right at 66,000 lb. curb weight Trucks (105í Aerial Ladder versions). And, hereís the deal. As you well know, fire trucks are NOT DRIVEN with fuel mileage in mind. We pretty much coined the phrase ďpedal to the metal ď. Some of us tried to make that pedal travel even farther but, didnít have much luck at that.
Anyway, Iíd give my left you-know-what to be able to slip a Detroit Series 60 500HP into the spot where my present C-7 330HP currently lives. I could care less about the mpg. Weíre used to 6.0-7.5 for the 7 years weíve owned and operated it so far.
Scott
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Old 11-08-2018, 04:12 AM   #8
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As an OTR driver for Harley Davidson our fleet of 58 trucks were all equipped with series 60 Detroit engines. Average weight overall miles traveled probably around 65,000lb and the fleet maintained a 6.3mpg. My 2003 model Freightliner truck had 890,000mi on it when they traded and other than a water pump and general maintenance, never a problem. Yes it was in a truck but still same motor. hope this helps
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Old 11-08-2018, 06:52 AM   #9
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2005 Monaco Executive 45 CAQ (With a 600hp Detroit 60 Diesel) towing a 2012 Ford F-150 crewcab with a combined weight of 28T. My last (and first trip) I was getting 5.0 to 6.0 but I was also running the generator all the time. Getting ready to take another trip up to Tn. so may not need to run the A/C as much this trip.
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Old 11-08-2018, 07:10 AM   #10
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Smitty77, you could not go wrong with a Detroit 60 engine. I have a 03 Detroit 60 in my 04 Signature and love it. I live in Colorado in the summer and travel up over the Rocky Mtns. many times a year. I weigh 46,000 lbs. and pull a Honda CR-V behind. I can hold 46 MPH against all the hard pulls going west on I 70 (6% grade at 12,000 ft. elevation). I have added the "Ugly Fix" to turn off the EGR Valve and on a trip to So Calif. I am averaging 7.2 MPG for the whole trip including Mtn. driving. The
"Ugly Fix" turns off the EGR Valve below 5 or 6 thousand feet elevation. This coach now has better throttle response and now I jumps away from a stoplight much better. Before the UF was installed I got 5.5 to 6.0 MPG. It was the best thing I ever did. I have been told that a Detroit 60 is a One Million mile engine. There is no lift pump to go bad as on some other engines talked about here, I have heard it is a $1200 fix for that. The only thing to do to a Detroit 60 is run the overhead (adjust valves and injectors) at about 60,000 miles and good to go for 1,000,000 miles, never happen on an RV though...Ö

Safe travels
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Old 11-08-2018, 10:11 AM   #11
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I have a series 60 in my semi truck 95 Peterbilt 379. The series 60 is in my opinion one of the best diesel engines ever built. These engines will go 1 million miles with oil changes and cooling system maintenance. Fuel mileage should be very good and comparable to the other high horsepower coach engines 6-7.5 I would guess. The pre 2003 engines in my opinion are the best with the 98-2002 my preferable choice due to changes in the block. And Pre Emissions system.The EGR systems were introduced in 2003. They had some issues but they are pretty easily repairable if a issue arises. But previous versions 94-98 are fine also.They just had a different piston design. But were/Are Dependable as anything you could want.The DDEC3 and DDEC4 engine control systems are super reliable If you want horsepower these engines with the right tune and combination of injectors, turbo can make serious horsepower in the 6-700 hp range ,and 14L engines over 800 in the right conditions. Not that you need or want that but it can be done. In a luxury coach environment I do not think You would ever wear it out as far as driving the life out of it.
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Old 11-08-2018, 12:10 PM   #12
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Many thanks for all the input on the DD!

Glad to see the endorsements of this engine, as it matches the lore I'd gathered over the years. (The same as the ISM and CAT C12's good rep's too!)

They are few and far between in under 45' coaches.

We're in the 'What if?' stage of investigation. We enjoy our 2004 40' Allure, with two slides. Having made many modifications and upgrades, and the DW has the inside almost completely shifted over to what she wants. (Carpet, change of shower glass from brass to nickel coated looking, are the last two dollar items to complete.

That being said, we do have micro checking, non slide generator, smaller black tank then desired, it will always be a CAPS era ISL370 (Updated to 400) (Which with Tag's added weight, has adequate but less then stellar power to weight ratio. and 8.9 Jake Compression is also supportive, but no question larger displacement would yield higher braking HP.), the Allure DynoMax Chassis is fine, but not as sophisticated as say the Magna/Affinity Chassis, 40' with Tag has 2 good size bays, and then 1/2 of another - 42-43' coaches usually have 3 full size bays, the coach also has lower ceiling height and non diffuser roof top AC's, our's came with X's 2 15K Penquins II - which struggles in the desert AZ heats, newer coaches have wider front doors, etc, etc...

The above rambling's, are the thought processes I've been going thru with the DW, as I explain to her that perhaps we should look for another coach in the next 3-6 months. As of now, DW is pretty sure she does not want to leave her coach (She did do lot's of the work inside. Painting the wallpaper, replacing the beveled mirror backsplash in with a nicer vinyl wallpaper, all of the brass fittings changed to stain nickel - so understand her blood sweat & tears involvement. But, I also know that 'Change is not her friend!' - it scares her!)

So as I'm researching for potential replacements, I'm researching 42-43' length coaches. ISM, CAT C12 or C13, Detroit Diesel Series 60 powered coaches. Age is a tough one. As the C12 is in older coaches, most older then our current 2004. I'd also prefer at least front disc brakes, and those are usually in the newer coaches - which then brings higher smog levels. Due to the unusual world where both Country Coach, and Monaco having older not as heavily smog choked engines - you can find coaches all the way up to model year 2009, with 2006 emission era built engines.

From what I can tell, on just the MPG side of things, ISM seems to be the last thirsty, DD 60 2nd least thirsty (And usually with more power/torque then the ISM), and C12 does very well to. C13's seem to be lucky to read the 6mpg level range, usually less. And I think due to emissions, I'll not be looking at C15's (But, still researching that.).

Obviously 'engine' is part of the decision process. But coach is still number one, as far as livability and supporting our CCC needs.

So that is why I posted this question on DD 60, to obtain real world input on MPG. To add to my decision process while hunting. And all of this may be for naught, as the DW will need to agree with a changeover - and that is appropriate. Very possible, we'll put another $20-30K in our coach (HWH Active Air, Carpet, few other interior items the DW still feel is appropriate.), touch up a few road rashes, but that $20-30K does not include a full grind and paint to address the Micro Checking. I just cannot justify spending I'd expect $20-27.5K for a full grind down and build up and paint - for an 04 coach, that was not ideal with the other things I noted above as still being the same... (If this coach, which again I respect and do like an do trust! Had been an Intrigue with the C13, and a bit larger black tank - I'd suspect I'd not mind as much the costs of grinding/fill/paint to address the Micro Checking.).

Will be an interesting 3-6 months, as our 'discussion dance' continues!

Best to all,
Smitty
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Old 11-08-2018, 12:14 PM   #13
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2006 Monaco Executive 41Ē. Towing 7000lbs. Just averaged 6.4 on a 5000 mile trip. Included Many miles they the Utah mountains. Itís been trouble free.
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Old 11-08-2018, 12:14 PM   #14
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Seem no matter how many threads on diesel MPG come up (hundreds...), the numbers always end up 6.5 to 8 mpg. No matter the engine, no matter the rig, no matter the climate no matter the hills...
Mine is 7.2 - 7.5...Cummins ISM 500
and to compare performance, use HP and Torque specs. If they are the same, then the performance is the same with same gearing.
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