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Old 08-04-2015, 03:03 AM   #57
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1. go to your bank loan department with the VIN and ask them to see if it has a lien against it.

2. Go to the sherrifs department explain the situation and ask them to see if it is stolen.

Do not sell the vehicle or any parts until you have completed 1,2. The vehicle has crossed state lines meaning that if it is stolen or has a lien against it selling it will be a felony and that will be the US government doing the prosecuting not florida or missouri.

It if was a company that owned it which went out of buisness do a little detective work and see whether they were sold or went bankrupt. If bankrupt you might be able to send a letter to the federal district they were in and explain to the judge the circumstances and see if there is any way you can get a title.

If not 1,2 above go to small claims court the problem with this is who is the defendent. The people you are buying it from has no standing ( other than going to small claims court to sue them and get the money for your repairs I know you have mentioned the florida statutes on mechanic liens but this is a different situation that a small claims judge can act on and small claims court is usually pretty inexpensive to file) If you can get your money back and repairs from previous owner then you are good. If not I would get a free consultation from a lawyer on what to do.


I would also get the name of the guy that sold it to the people that you bought it from. Either him or the people you bought it from if not both committed fraud. You might be able to get money from the victims compensation fund if you get someone arrested.

I find it suspicious the people you bought it from had a title sitting there when you bought it. What happened to that title. They would have had to have given it to you when you bought it so that you could get a license plate for it. Even if you owed money that would have been a lien placed on the title. Either way they need a lawyer they sold a vehicle they did not own that was taken across state lines. That is going to be a felony if they truly had no knowledge they are still guilty the judge might just be lenient.
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Old 08-04-2015, 03:18 AM   #58
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One of your earlier posters had a good idea. Please send the VIN in private message. I can have my bank check for a lien and then have the police department check to see if it is stolen. Since you know the company that used to own it is no longer in missouri I get the impression that someone knows the name of the company that used to own it. I can do the detective work and if it is not going to get me in jail I can drive down to florida with 2k cash. That would solve your problems.

By the way the more I read your posts the more I think the people you bought it from are not as innocent as you think. Call the police and file a complaint.
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Old 08-04-2015, 03:46 AM   #59
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My current view on this is that for $900 you purchased an older motor home. If you have $2000 into it in repairs/upgrades, it needed work. Since, by most standards, you don't have a large amount of $$$ into it (yes the $3K would be a lot for me also, but it would be minimal in a court battle) I think I would at least contact the Missouri DMV or State Police and explain the title story and see where that takes you. Pretty sure they would not be interested in the dollars you have spent so save your breath unless they ask. Have the needed info such as chassis VIN and motor home VIN. This MIGHT at least tell you who the owner is. If the titled owner can be found you might be able to resolve it. If the vehicle has not been reported as stolen then you might be able to claim it as an abandoned vehicle and start the title process from there.

Unless you can access a lawyer for next to nothing then my guess is you'll spend more on a lawyer than the $900 you are trying to recover. A few phone calls might save you a lot of frustration.

In reading some of the previous posts you are saying that this is not a $900 RV. It might be helpful if we knew if this was a $2000 vehicle or a $50000 vehicle. I am curious how you transported the vehicle with no title ? Did you put plates on it ? Were they registered to this vehicle ? Honestly, the more of this I read the less I understand how you got into this mess. From the info you have given I am under the impression that you did a lot of this with blinders on. Sorry if I sound harsh but the simple act of putting money on the table and not checking the title seems wrong to me. Good luck in your journey with this nightmare.
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Old 08-04-2015, 08:28 AM   #60
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You can claim it but the court has to rule on it.
That's what I said.
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Old 08-04-2015, 08:51 AM   #61
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You have painted yourself into a corner with this deal. You should have asked to see a clear title before giving the previous owner a cent. If you were making a pay as you go arrangement you should have had a contract between you and the seller stating the terms.
It is illegal to sell anything which is not rightfully yours. The previous owner should never have sold you that MH. He probably shouldn't have bought it either. If he left a title laying around in hopes you thought it was to this MH that is fraud.
Before consulting a lawyer which could cost thousands of dollars you should do as suggested by others and talk with the local Sheriff's office. See if they can't sort this out. If in fact the unit is stolen merchandise you don't want it in your possession either. You need authority here not just internet advice.
Sounds to me like every seller and buyer has some fault in this transaction.
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:41 AM   #62
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I agree with Gemini. Use your VIN to find out if there is a lien against the RV and who the lienholder is. The lienholder is the person/organization that should be holding the legal title document. A new title would not be issued to you until all liens are paid off to the existing finance company. If you can find out who that is, you might be able to contact them and find out what they know about this situation. If no one is paying on the lien anymore, then the finance company can repossess the RV. They might sell it to you if you pay all or even a part of the balance due. You might even find that there are mechanic's liens against the vehicle.

The guy you bought it from shouldn't have any recourse to collect any money from you since he apparently was never a legal owner. If fact, you might be able to go to small claims court and recover any money paid to him. You really do need to talk to a lawyer even if you don't retain him to recover your losses. At least he could advise you of exactly where you stand legally. And a one-time visit should cost you no more than a couple hundred if that much. Some lawyers even give free initial consultations. AND, like Gemini, I have a feeling the guy you bought the RV from knew more about this than he is letting on. He may have run into the same issues you are having and just tried to dump the RV to get away from all this nonsense. Even if it WAS unintentional on his part, it still doesn't sound like he was ever the legal owner and therefore had no right to sell it to anyone.
You really should talk to a lawyer just to protect yourself. And whatever you do, don't sell it or part it out as long as ownership is not determined. Possession of the vehicle does not give you legal rights to sell it or sell parts from it.

Good luck,
Jack
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Old 08-04-2015, 01:09 PM   #63
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BTW, you publicly stated you may part it out on this forum. If you do that and this post is found your going to be out even more money.

Do as others suggested and try to get it in your name. For the time being I would just keep it, not make payments and use it as long as you can until someone repo's it or you get matters resolved.
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Old 08-04-2015, 01:50 PM   #64
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People are forgetting that plaintiffs can also claim legal costs in court besides the RV purchase and repair money. The court will grant the plaintiff's legal costs if the judgement is in his favor.

In California, claims of around $7,000 (I forget the exact amount) can be litigated in Small Claims Court. Check to see what is the top amount in your state.

Right, but awarding legal costs is not guaranteed. And beyond that, someone that can't afford to return $900 probably isn't in the best financial situation. The plaintiff would owe his attorney either way, even if the defendant can't pay.... (assuming it's not a contingency agreement)
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Old 08-04-2015, 02:02 PM   #65
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We never bought any vehicle unless the seller had the Title in their hands. A little paranoid of us maybe but we were never stuck.....
You have never bought from a consignment lot, or from a person that has a mortgage on their unit, or something similar that thousands of people deal with.

Most of these situations are resolved by time. You pay the financing entity, they settle the mortgage, then they take their time signing off on the title, then mail it to the mortgagee; not to the buyer.

The mortgagee/seller then signs it and mails it to the buyer. Lots of ways that this system can bog down, so the Bill of Sale contains an indemnity clause that says...the Seller is legally and financially responsible for providing you a good, clear, title within X number of days (60 for me).
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Old 08-04-2015, 02:03 PM   #66
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I'm very sorry this has happened to you,,, but I would take a different approach.

I do not believe the sellers didn't know there was a title problem, list the facts you shared, difficult to understand them being surprised. The wrong title for a different vehicle? Really? And they were smart enough to include that but didn't know the right title wasn't theirs?

They got caught, and are now back paddling. Your money is gone. I would bet they probably don't have the funds to return it.

I would skip the lawyer, go to the police/sheriff and file charges. You were taken in a fraudulent transaction purposely. Wouldn't be surprised if the sellers have not been there done that before. This is not a deal that fell apart due to incompatibility, this is a fraud.

File charges, let the law figure it out.

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Old 08-04-2015, 02:22 PM   #67
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Interesting that these problems happen where vehicle sales do not appear to be tightly regulated to help prevent fraud. In PA, as a private buyer, you cannot get the vehicle registered unless you present a properly executed title, period! A dealer (new or used) is in big trouble if they provide tags without sending the title to the state for re-assignment to the new owner.
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:00 PM   #68
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Marcus, I am very serious. Send me the VIN please. I have already consulted an attorney. I have checked the bonded title laws in my state. I have been banking at the same bank since I was 16 I am 62 now. Checking for a lien is going to be one phone call for me. Checking to see if it is stolen is another phone call. If it checks out to not be stolen or have a lien I am very prepared to show up at your door with 100 dollar bills. 20 to be exact. I need the VIN the year and the model.


Once again let me reiterate do not sell it until those checks have been made. If there is a lien against it that is a felony to sell it. Your sellers would have committed a felony. For anyone that thinks it is not a big deal my sons girlfriend spent 4 years in prison for selling furniture with a lien on it. If it is stolen and you sell it then you are selling stolen property. If you part it out you have just become a chop shop and now you are selling parts from a stolen vehicle.

If your goal is to just get your 2000 back I am prepared to help you achieve that if it checks out that it is a legal transaction and the vehicle is in the shape you represent it to be.
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:23 AM   #69
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Oh boy there are a lot of questions and responses since I was last on. I'll try to answer all of them the best I can with the knowledge I have available or was given to me recently by the couple I bought it from.
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Old 08-05-2015, 07:33 AM   #70
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I am under the impression you know exactly what to do and how to do it ... am I correct?
Actually, yes. It's a long story but I'll keep it short.

Years ago, a previous employer of mine was buying motorcycles without titles as parts vehicles. He sells the parts on eBay and actually still does to this day.

Anyways, he got caught up in buying stolen bikes from someone and didn't know they were stolen. So the cops swarmed his house and he told them what he does for a living and that he didn't know about it but he could get the guy they're looking for if he let him go. So they did and he called the guy up to come bring him some more bikes, and of course the guy did. He hasn't bought a bike from anyone without a title of any kind since then.

He also had the bikes stripped down to the bare frames and handed over the cops the frames from the bikes.

I could rip this RV down to the bare chassis and surrender the chassis to the cops if it is indeed stolen. The chassis is all that matters because that's what's stamped and registered. Nothing else is.
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