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Old 05-31-2016, 05:06 PM   #15
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I Agree with second opinion.

If the damage was indeed caused by excessive ingestion of dust/dirt, I would think that there would be some build-up in the tract between the filter and the engine. I suggest you ask if this is true, and if examination with a fiber optic scope will confirm the diagnosis.* (SEE second bulletin below) Possibly a diesel expert here can chime in.

Interesting info HERE:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...con-engine-oil

http://www.aera.org/technical-bulletins/tb-2670
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Old 05-31-2016, 06:30 PM   #16
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His engine may need rebuilding, but I doubt if a 4-year old air cleaner was the cause. However, a leaky air intake system, or possibly a defective filter, can let dust into the engine and that can damage a diesel severely. They breath a lot of air, more than a gas engine, and don't suffer dust/dirt well at all.

So while it is possible a 4 year old filter went bad, I would not assume it based on age alone. A leak that lets dirt bypass the filter is more likley, in my opinion.

However, my air filter gauge is also less than accurate. When mine reaches a bit over 50%, hill-climbing performance begins to deteriorate, apparently due to insufficient max air intake under load. A new filter quickly restores it.
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Old 05-31-2016, 06:31 PM   #17
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I did hear that about Cummins dip sticks being off. The manual say's 21 qts plus 3 qts for filter. Making it 24 qts. The Cummins dealer say's that is correct. Well I am getting my engine rebuilt, I cannot drive it using this much oil. I have put 40k miles on the bus since owning it. I do not want to buy a new one at my age. Bite the bullet and drive it 4 or 5 more years. Then I will be 80 and we can travel on cruise ships letting someone else do,the driving.
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Old 05-31-2016, 06:54 PM   #18
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I did hear that about Cummins dip sticks being off. The manual say's 21 qts plus 3 qts for filter. Making it 24 qts. The Cummins dealer say's that is correct. Well I am getting my engine rebuilt, I cannot drive it using this much oil. I have put 40k miles on the bus since owning it. I do not want to buy a new one at my age. Bite the bullet and drive it 4 or 5 more years. Then I will be 80 and we can travel on cruise ships letting someone else do,the driving.
Happy Crusin,,,
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Old 05-31-2016, 07:14 PM   #19
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There are some tests that can be run on the motor to determine if a rebuild is needed or not. One of them is as simple as putting a dye in the oil and then analyzing the exhaust.

It has been said before and I'll say it again. I would for sure get a second opinion before laying out the $$ for a rebuild. But then again, it is your $$
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Old 05-31-2016, 07:17 PM   #20
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"TonyMac"....In the last couple of years, the air cleaner manufacturers and engine manufacturers are now saying that air cleaners should be replaced every two years for a couple of reasons. First, is the glue issue and can be even worse if you buy an air cleaner that has been sitting on a shelf for quite a while before you buy it. The second is water ingestion. The more popular sealed (disposable units) can often get water in them and start to fall apart. Their design prevents the owner from checking on their condition.

You really shouldn't remove air cleaners on diesel engines for inspection and you should NEVER shake on out or blow out. If you're going to remove it, replace it.

Is your diesel engine worth the price of an air cleaner every two years? By the way, the air cleaner minders are absolutely useless!
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Old 05-31-2016, 07:23 PM   #21
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Never heard of such a thing. I have filters in my hot tub that are evidently built of better materials than Cummings air filters, if the point of your post is to be believed. I can't find any info on the web about filter glue breakdown in any application. What exactly is the change criteria given by the engine manufacturer? And where did you find it? All I find is change by miles or hours.

When I attended the Camp Freightliner class in 2012 this was discussed at length by the instructor. Around his desk he had several examples of air filters that had failed and allowing dust to enter the engine. Freightliner Maintenance Operation 09-01 in the FCCC owners manual has the owner replacing the air filter if the coach is new and the chassis is one model year old, and then again every 24 months.

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Old 05-31-2016, 07:30 PM   #22
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Look at this thread Air Filter Change? , in post #19 there is photos of my filter, 5 years old/30k on it. I cut it apart to see what was going on inside it when I changed it.......take a look.....it looked like new still, and no glue deterioration. By the sounds of things, you had a bad connection some where on the compressor side of your turbo and ingested dust into your engine would be my guess to cause that much blow by and trash the piston rings.......
The impeller on the compressor side of the turbo will tell the story, and look at the turbo piping for dust tracks.
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Old 05-31-2016, 07:31 PM   #23
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Yes loss of power and loss of oil. They are doing a rebuild with the engine in. A rebuilt engine and the cost of removing the engine and putting the rebuilt engine back in is very costly, more than a rebuilt. I will find out what caused this for sure. I have been adding oil on our trips over the four years we have had the bus. I had Cummins in Tampa check,it out and they said there was nothing wrong with the engine. I have it now at Cummins South in Ocala, Fl.
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Old 05-31-2016, 07:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
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"TonyMac"....In the last couple of years, the air cleaner manufacturers and engine manufacturers are now saying that air cleaners should be replaced every two years for a couple of reasons. First, is the glue issue and can be even worse if you buy an air cleaner that has been sitting on a shelf for quite a while before you buy it. The second is water ingestion. The more popular sealed (disposable units) can often get water in them and start to fall apart. Their design prevents the owner from checking on their condition.
The installation sheet that came with my last filter (Donaldson labeled), stated to replace yearly!!
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:00 PM   #25
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Never heard of such a thing. I have filters in my hot tub that are evidently built of better materials than Cummings air filters, if the point of your post is to be believed. I can't find any info on the web about filter glue breakdown in any application. What exactly is the change criteria given by the engine manufacturer? And where did you find it? All I find is change by miles or hours.
Then you haven't been keeping up with the information published by Cummins and the filter makers.
BTW: the cost of a filter (maybe $150) compared to a rebuild (some $35,000+ for our ISX) is minuscule!
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:06 PM   #26
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I worked in the mining industry for ~30 years, at various levels of authority from foreman, superintendent, manager, opts manager, GM, VP, and COO. Mining is one of the harshest environments for equipment to operate, especially underground.

In all those years I've only seen a couple of engines dusted and usually the cause was found to be a faulty air intake system, believe it or not caused by operators too lazy to run back to the shop for a new filter but instead just pulled the filter and/or cut a hole in the air intake rubber elbows in a hard to find spot.

I do not recall any filter failures although the frequency of the filter changes was days/weeks not years. At the time some of the larger filter venders advocated cleaning the filters, selling a machine that would spin the filter at high speed, blow air opposite to normal air flow, and use an air nozzle to cause the filter ribs to vibrate causing the dirt to dislodge and get sucked out of the chamber in a vacuum. We tried this system, it did work but in the end decided to just change filters in mass quantity.

The amount of oil you consumed in your engine is not normal, definitely something wrong but I'm suspicious of a dusted engine. It could be 1 bad cylinder/ring set. I would request a visual inspection of the inside of the air intake system looking for dirt. Inspect the filter and look for failure. I would also request an oil sample.

You have made a decision to rebuild, sounds like you've made the decision based on recommendations from Cummins. During my recent dealings with Cummins I was not impressed, I provided feedback to the manager but did not get a response with no offer to compensate me for mistakes that they made and I'm still struggling with.

My comments are meant to be educational for all and not criticism.
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:11 PM   #27
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[I I Change ALL of my Filters Every 15,000 Miles -Regardless !
207 K on the clock and My Engine Runs Awesome ! 6CTA8.3 .
My suggestion ? Always Change your Filters based on Mileage ! [/I]
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:17 PM   #28
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Don't always trust the Filter Minder either. In 2014 I was doing an inspection of my air intake system when I was changing the filter. I took the Filter Minder off and sucked on the vacuum side and could easily pull air through the minder. Closer inspection found that the bottom had numerous hair line cracks. Even if the filter was plugged it would not have pulled enough of a vacuum for the minder to register it.
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