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Old 12-31-2010, 08:09 AM   #57
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hudsoner, its -alledged- carcinogens and the issue has always been the particulates aggrevated those with respiratory conditions, diesel is the least harmful fuel when everything is taken into consideration; as for bio I have no first hand knowledge.

wireless, I frequently got to watch the guys in the engine shop pull the pistons from the loco's and while I did not measure them there did not appear to be much of a difference in the size of them and what I thought a 55 gallon diameter would be: suffice to say the pistons were very large.

As for the issue of starting being the reason for keeping the things running, not sure about that-in cold weather I witnessed difficult starts, but the things usually finally turned over-in warm weather the starts were loud and smoky but otherwise pretty much uneventful-or at least they were in New Haven, Ct, circa '75.
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:20 PM   #58
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hudsoner, its -alledged- carcinogens and the issue has always been the particulates aggrevated those with respiratory conditions, diesel is the least harmful fuel when everything is taken into consideration; as for bio I have no first hand knowledge.
.
The State of California, as well as the EU considers the fine diesel particles as a know carcinogen. The new diesel engines that can be now licensed in CA and the EU have particle filters and urea injection, and are required to use the clean (low sulfur) diesel fuel. As far as I know, this diesel fuel and technology is not yet available for the large diesel engines of trucks and big motorhomes.

I believe that diesel engines that are equipped with this new technology will be rather friendly to the environment, but there is still no reason to let those engines idle for any prolonged time. Idling will only burn unnecessary fuel and will cause more wear and tear on the engine. I am not aware of any advantages that will be gained by the extended idling. (Daimler Benz, the world largest manufacturer of diesel engines, seems to not be aware of any advantages either).
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:37 PM   #59
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The new diesel engines that can be now licensed in CA and the EU have particle filters and urea injection, and are required to use the clean (low sulfur) diesel fuel. As far as I know, this diesel fuel and technology is not yet available for the large diesel engines of trucks and big motorhomes.
They are. We just bought one.
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Old 12-31-2010, 03:22 PM   #60
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The urea injection is to help with NOx emissions, not the particulates. The DPF is the sole controller for that.

Modern diesels are pretty amazing to say the least. The power they make with the emissions they produce is nothing short of incredible.
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:01 PM   #61
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The urea injection is to help with NOx emissions, not the particulates. The DPF is the sole controller for that.

Modern diesels are pretty amazing to say the least. The power they make with the emissions they produce is nothing short of incredible.
I am not a diesel expert, but as far as I as I understood it from my coworkers (my employer is also the largest manufacturer of the particle filters), the urea injection also helps to prevent a premature clogging of the particle filter.

It is good to hear that the new technology has now reached the big diesel engines (until now, they only diesel engines I new of that utilized this technology were produced by VW, Daimler Benz and BMW). Not to long ago I had the chance to test drive a VW with their new 3 liter turbo diesel. This was an eye opening experience!
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:02 PM   #62
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They are. We just bought one.
Congratulations!!!
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:04 PM   #63
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Hudsoner, what doesn't the State of California consider to be a carcinogen?
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Old 01-01-2011, 01:03 AM   #64
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I am not a diesel expert, but as far as I as I understood it from my coworkers (my employer is also the largest manufacturer of the particle filters), the urea injection also helps to prevent a premature clogging of the particle filter.
Could be. I was on the cutting edge of GM diesel tech until 2008, just before urea really hit amongst the big three. I attended the emerging technologies class and urea was discussed for it's vaporous emissions benefits but helping the DPF wasn't mentioned at the time.

I'll look into it, what we discussed was the direct benefits of urea, the final product could also have additives to help the DPF too.
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Old 01-01-2011, 07:06 AM   #65
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Hudsoner, what doesn't the State of California consider to be a carcinogen?
Substances that have not been shown to be carcinogenic.

Do you have access to the research? It's just silly to make derogatory comments about a subject based on little or no information.

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Old 01-01-2011, 07:25 AM   #66
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Hudsoner, what doesn't the State of California consider to be a carcinogen?



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Old 01-01-2011, 08:51 AM   #67
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Hudsoner, what doesn't the State of California consider to be a carcinogen?
I was an Expert Witness for Proposition 65 in California. During my work there I came to the conclusion that the Ca scientists very well know what they are doing. The difference between their recommendation and the ones of the federal FDA/EPA is based on the fact, that they do not give in to industry lobbying groups.

I was involved in some working parties on federal level, in which we came to the conclusion that some substances should be considered to be carcinogenic. This conclusion was given to the rule makers, but they decided that these substance are possible carcinogens after industry lobbyists gave their input. That is the reason why Ca has more carcinogens listed than the Feds!
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Old 01-01-2011, 08:56 AM   #68
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Could be. I was on the cutting edge of GM diesel tech until 2008, just before urea really hit amongst the big three. I attended the emerging technologies class and urea was discussed for it's vaporous emissions benefits but helping the DPF wasn't mentioned at the time.

I'll look into it, what we discussed was the direct benefits of urea, the final product could also have additives to help the DPF too.
That would be interesting to know. You are definitely more knowledgeable in this area than I am.

I can just know what was told to me and what I read in publications. I worked with the health part of the EHS group of my employer.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:11 AM   #69
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Substances that have not been shown to be carcinogenic.

Do you have access to the research? It's just silly to make derogatory comments about a subject based on little or no information.

Here is some info:
ATSDR - Cancer and the Environment - What substances in the environment are known to cause cancer (continued)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...v061p00797.pdf

http://www.500dead.com/References/Po...%282002%29.PDF

Air pollution, fine particulate matter and l...

Particulate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are many research papers in German language only, because Germany has the highest density of diesel powered vehicles in Europe.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:55 AM   #70
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Hudsoner, does the US EPA list the paticulates under discussion as known carcinogens, and if not why not ?

Keep in mind that we have the current bedbug epidemic because of the Euro's also.

Isn't there something very wrong with the US EPA when one can go to their website and see that they are stiving for 'environmental justice' or words to that effect ?, they have become nothing more than another eco terrorist, determined to bring the Republic to its manufacturing knees.

Just out of curiosity, if you have an opinion; is the Volt an electric car or hybrid ?
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