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Old 08-27-2012, 08:26 PM   #15
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We had a 2006 40' HR Ambassador, 330 cummins, RR8 chassis much like yours and loved it for two years or so. If I hadn't wanted a tag axle, with the attendant extra set of brakes and length, or the two stage engine brake, or the Spartan chassis I wouldn't have traded it on an '08 Tiffin Phaeton tag. But we did want those things so we did trade for one. In '08 the cummins 360 was the only engine available in their 42' tag axle so the heck with those who think you need tons of additional power, you don't, trust me. We kept that Coach for over three years and 37K miles. We now have another tag as you can see. If these features aren't important to you or you are fearful of getting in and out of spaces (won't really happen) then stay with what you have? I have been pleasantly surprised over the last couple of years at what owners have done to their existing coaches instead of buying a new one? You have a great platform to start with I think. If not, a good used Tiffin Phaeton tag would be a great choice and value or, and I am especially impressed with this one, a 2011 Fleetwood Providence 42' tag. I think the Providence provides as great a value today as the Phaeton did in 2008?
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:38 PM   #16
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The Federal Gov't has just recently issued an exemption for RV's allowing 24,000# rear axles so we should see some 43'ers with a single rear axle. This was reported in the Sept FMCA magazine.

Lets see:
16,000 front
24,000 rear
= 40,000 GVWR!
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
The Federal Gov't has just recently issued an exemption for RV's allowing 24,000# rear axles so we should see some 43'ers with a single rear axle. This was reported in the Sept FMCA magazine.

Lets see:
16,000 front
24,000 rear
= 40,000 GVWR!
This is an exception that is being made for RV's. It doesn't change the size of the brakes being used? I for one don't want all that extra weight, or length (which will almost certainly wind up behind the rear wheels?) riding on just the the two sets of brakes. I would definately insist on an engine brake as opposed to exhaust. No, give me the tag thanks; there's already enough posts on here regarding handling issues??
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darcan
We looked at many floorplans and fell in love with the Fleetwood Providence 40X. Mid, 40" flatscreen TV with two euro chairs, two living area slides; flat screen in the bedroom and a 3rd flatscreen outside by the outside kitchen. Check it out!
Darcan,

That's the same one we're looking at. Floor plan and features fit us. How long have you had it?
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coached View Post
This is an exception that is being made for RV's. It doesn't change the size of the brakes being used? I for one don't want all that extra weight, or length (which will almost certainly wind up behind the rear wheels?) riding on just the the two sets of brakes. I would definately insist on an engine brake as opposed to exhaust. No, give me the tag thanks; there's already enough posts on here regarding handling issues??
Brake size is one of the factors in rating an axle and consequently the GVWR and GCVWR.
When our front 12,000# axle was replaced with a 14,600# unit one of the first things I noticed was the much better breaking. I checked specs between our original 12,000# axle and the 13,600# unit and that was also considered and found that the brakes on the two were exactly the same.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
The Federal Gov't has just recently issued an exemption for RV's allowing 24,000# rear axles so we should see some 43'ers with a single rear axle. This was reported in the Sept FMCA magazine.

Lets see:
16,000 front
24,000 rear
= 40,000 GVWR!
But the question is why would one want to do a single axle ?
Tags are more stable .... on and on
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:48 AM   #21
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Exclamation size matters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack1234 View Post
From our real life experience, I would caution against the idea that "bigger & more complex is better". As nice as a tag axle may be, I wouldn't want the extra +10,000lbs, the extra 2tires, the extra maintenance & extra "expense", plus the considerably more expensive ISM/X, Allison 4000, etc. necessary to get all that extra running gear down the road. It is also easy to justify another couple of feet on length.....40 is only 4 more feet than 36... Oh what the heck 42 isn't that much bigger....we can probably squeeze that 45er into most places! The other consideration is cost......how much do you really want "stuck" in a fully depreciating asset? These a big boy toys. I still have to remind myself that the upfront cost is only the start....the bigger the toy the more it costs to to keep all those goodies maintained and working.

Just something to consider....only you can decide what is right for you.
Not really an issue when all things are considered and the time involved .

Bigger = more comfort , plain and simple can't get around that --- period
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:01 PM   #22
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Not really an issue when all things are considered and the time involved .

Bigger = more comfort , plain and simple can't get around that --- period
That is true but cost of maintenance is a major factor. It is always a compromise to have balance. For those with unlimited funds, the balance point is beyond consideration for the most part. For many, it is a major aspect. I guess it gets down to the point of diminishing returns. I'm finding that our future needs seem to fit into something between 39' and 42' (give or take) and in some cases I will have to go tag and others not.

What are the trade offs? To what degree is improved comfort a matter of relative meaning. I know that there is a quantitative jump from gas to DP. I do know there is another quantitative jump from single to tag but is that jump as significant? I'm sure it is measurable but is it reaching that point of value for features I can afford?

There are no clear answers to that exact point for anyone. I can easily rule out the extremes. Don't want a mini Winnie nor do I want a Provost that needs a boat anchor. LOL
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:11 PM   #23
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I really like the idea of an extra 4k in a no tag rig.
I like that a lot.

With a modern raised rail chassis, the added length would go right into the wheelbase. Leave the powertrian module along and just lengthen the main rails. Would give more basement storage, and hopefully more CCC
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcfaror View Post
Thanks everyone for your great advice on the "next step up". Glad to hear that others are contemplating similar moves. I will definitely check out the American Coach line as well to see what is out there and what others are saying.

Any experience with aqua/hydro/oasis hot and if that is worth pursuing for cold weather (20-40) travel? Others seem to love this system, but it certainly adds a hefty "add" to the price.
If you can find a coach in your budget, love the floor plan first, spartan over the freight liner, had both, absolutely agua hot is a great pleasure! Tag axle is plus, plus. Good luck, the American coach is a terrific quality line. Beware 2007' 2008 years in AC as the front axle was not heavy enough for the gross vehicle weight. Let us know what you find.
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:51 PM   #25
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tag

I was lead to believe that 20,000 pounds is all that is legal per axle on main roads? No matter what size your axles are,you can only carry 20,000 pounds per axle.[In other words if you have a rear axle that is rated for 30,000 pounds it can only be loaded to 20,000 pounds] It is a bridge weight rule I think. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:06 PM   #26
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I was lead to believe that 20,000 pounds is all that is legal per axle on main roads? No matter what size your axles are,you can only carry 20,000 pounds per axle.[In other words if you have a rear axle that is rated for 30,000 pounds it can only be loaded to 20,000 pounds] It is a bridge weight rule I think. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks
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What they did was give RVs the same exemptions as buses. If I have this figured out here are a few options.

1. Current axles that were designed for higher weight could be relabeled to new standards.

2. New rigs will have beefed up rear axles. That could play in huge for those that are satisfied with a single rear axle but not the overloading they might be prone to.

Unintended consequences could be that RVs that are "upgraded" to a higher GVWR or built to the new standards could run into problems on non-designated or lighter load limit roads.

As an example I have a road to my home base CG rated at 26 tons for 2 axles. If my RV was currently rated at 26 tons but was upgraded to say 28 tons GVWR, where to I stand? Also, 20 tons on the rear axle is standard for so many roads. I don't think the highway bill addresses anything but major highway issues. I don't think municipalities are bound by this. Could be wrong but...
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:37 PM   #27
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[QUOTE=athuddriver;1291704 Also, 20 tons on the rear axle is standard for so many roads. I don't think the highway bill addresses anything but major highway issues. I don't think municipalities are bound by this. Could be wrong but...[/QUOTE]

The federal exemption is for 20,000 pounds, not tons, on the axle and I believe it applies to any roads for which federal funds are used for construction or maintenance which is probably, at a minimum, the interstate and US highway system.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:39 PM   #28
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The federal exemption is for 20,000 pounds, not tons, on the axle and I believe it applies to any roads for which federal funds are used for construction or maintenance which is probably, at a minimum, the interstate and US highway system.
OOPPSS...as Jethro would say...not plus not equals not.

I did mean 10 tons/20,000# GOOD CATCH! Sorry.
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