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Old 07-20-2015, 07:34 AM   #15
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Three is indeed a fuse though I can not tell you where it is
For Power gear you cazn always disable the entire jack system by removing the control panel, tying a string on the cable plugged into it (So you do not loose the cable,, Disconnecting the cable and put it back

or if you have a foot pedal parking brake there are two wires hooked to the brake switch (a pin swich near the top of the pedal arm) #1 is hooked to #2,, Unhook #2 from pin switch, unhook #1 from #1 and hook it to pin switch and then use a test lead (wire with clips on both ends) to hook #2 to ground,, Jacks will not operate, will indicate parking brake not set.
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Old 07-20-2015, 09:04 AM   #16
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I agree the shops need to use their own equipment and not use the leveling jacks. I also agree to tell them not to do it. I also agree that the best thing to do is watch them do it. The last time I had tires installed the techs did not realize the hubcap on the back had left handed threads. They damaged the bolt trying to get it off.

With the above said. I do not think that it is as big a problem as people are making it out to be. Why would you think that having one jack used to raise one corner is going to be any worse on your unit than having a hydraulic floor jack raise it. The result is exactly the same the corner of the unit is going to go up an amount necessary to get the tire off. If there is any stress on the windshield or twisting of the frame that is going to happen regardless of which way you jack the unit up. I also think that if your leveling jack cannot hold the coach with the tire off of the ground for thirty minutes to an hour it surely will not be able to hold the weight of the coach when leveling for days at a time. Since my coach has been on leveling jacks for most of the last 14 months with no problem I am not too worried about the additional weight of a tire and half of an axle if it was jacked up in order to change a tire. I see people on a regular basis that jack up their coach with the front tiress completely off of the ground in order to level. In one campsite I was at the guy had both front tires at least 12 inches off of the ground and parked that way for a week. I thought he was not being smart in doing that but he seemed to not have any worries about it and I did not see anything happen to his unit. If you tell a tire dealer not to use your jacks and they do anyway find a new tire dealer. I do not see getting all stressed out because they did.
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Old 07-20-2015, 09:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini5362 View Post
I do not think that it is as big a problem as people are making it out to be.
Why would you think that having one jack used to raise one corner is going to be any worse on your unit than having a hydraulic floor jack raise it.
The result is exactly the same the corner of the unit is going to go up an amount necessary to get the tire off.
If there is any stress on the windshield or twisting of the frame that is going to happen regardless of which way you jack the unit up.
I also think that if your leveling jack cannot hold the coach with the tire off of the ground for thirty minutes to an hour it surely will not be able to hold the weight of the coach when leveling for days at a time.
I do not see getting all stressed out because they did.
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I agree!
Thanks for bringing logic and sanity to this "never ending" debate.
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Old 07-20-2015, 10:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini5362 View Post
I agree the shops need to use their own equipment and not use the leveling jacks. I also agree to tell them not to do it. I also agree that the best thing to do is watch them do it. The last time I had tires installed the techs did not realize the hubcap on the back had left handed threads. They damaged the bolt trying to get it off.

With the above said. I do not think that it is as big a problem as people are making it out to be.
I completely agree up to this point.

Quote:
Why would you think that having one jack used to raise one corner is going to be any worse on your unit than having a hydraulic floor jack raise it. The result is exactly the same the corner of the unit is going to go up an amount necessary to get the tire off.
No, it's not exactly the same. In one case you are using a jack that is attached hard to the frame. If not done correctly, it's very easy to twist the frame. Furthermore, when using the leveling jacks, you must raise the corner of the coach far enough to take all the slack out of the suspension so that the axle is dangling from the stretched out air bag and shocks. Then you must lift the corner a little further to raise the tire off the ground. You will raise the corner of the coach by the distance that the wheel is raised, PLUS the distance it takes to fully extend your suspension to the limits.

With the proper jack for changing tires, which is placed under the axle, the axle is being lifted just enough for the tire to clear the ground. The suspension is not stretched out, but perhaps it is compressed a little more than normal. At the worst case, the ride height control valves will maintain the relative distance between the frame and the axle. In either case, the most the corner of the coach will raise is the distance that the wheel was raised, maybe even a little less.

It is NOT exactly the same situation. The difference is how far the suspension must stretch before raising the wheel off the ground.

Quote:
If there is any stress on the windshield or twisting of the frame that is going to happen regardless of which way you jack the unit up.
Proper leveling procedures will prevent twisting, and damage to the windshield, improper procedures can cause damage. If the tire technician is not trained in the proper procedures for using the jacks, there is the possibility that they will do it improperly. The proper procedure is not always intuitive, although the control panel often makes it seem that it is. On mine, it seems like you would just press the button for the corner you want, but if you don't lift the front several inches first, you will very likely tweak the windshield. My coach and jack manuals are very adamant about that point, but the tire technician is unlikely to know that.

If the proper jacks are used under the axle, the body movement is minimized, any forces on the frame are applied through the compliant suspension (not on the non-compliant jack mounted directly to the frame) and the changes of damage are minimized. And if there is damage to the coach, it is clearly from the tire shop's equipment and methods, and there should be no question who is responsible for repairs.

Quote:
I also think that if your leveling jack cannot hold the coach with the tire off of the ground for thirty minutes to an hour it surely will not be able to hold the weight of the coach when leveling for days at a time.
Again, not the same scenario. When working on the tires and other coach equipment, there can be side loads applied to the jacks, and they are not designed for this. Furthermore, a tool could accidentally contact and loosen or damage a hydraulic line, causing the coach to drop. This is even more likely if you are working under the coach, and not just changing tires. Finally, another person could accidentally operate the leveling controls.

None of this is a serious concern when camping. I agree that the odds of a jack dropping the coach are low, but if it happens while camping, the consequences are low: you just re-level. But if you are working on the coach, especially under the coach as some have mentioned, the consequences can be much more severe. Are you willing to bet your life on the jacks not dropping? Is your life not worth the few minutes it takes to get the proper supports set up? It only takes one failure or accident to really ruin your day (or life...)

Quote:
I see people on a regular basis that jack up their coach with the front tiress completely off of the ground in order to level. In one campsite I was at the guy had both front tires at least 12 inches off of the ground and parked that way for a week. I thought he was not being smart in doing that but he seemed to not have any worries about it and I did not see anything happen to his unit.
I've seen it myself, and I agree its not smart. Especially when it's the rear wheels. I've not seen every coach and jack owner manual out there, but every one that I have read says that you should not use the jacks to raise the tires off the ground.

Quote:
If you tell a tire dealer not to use your jacks and they do anyway find a new tire dealer.
Once again, we are in complete agreement.

Quote:
I do not see getting all stressed out because they did.
I also agree... until they end up doing some damage and claim that it wasn't their responsibility. They may be able to make a case if they are using your jacks, perhaps they already had the problem before you got there? But if they use their own equipment, and they cause damage, there is no question that they are responsible for any repairs. Taken to extremes, if an accident should happen and the tire technician is injured or killed, they could bring a suit against you saying your jacks caused the injury. If they use their own jacks, they can't hold you responsible.

In my last post, I linked to an existing thread where the tire shop caused damage to a jack system. The blame was not clear-cut, even some of the posters on that thread blamed the jack system and the RV owner and not the shop. It's not a big deal until a situation like that happens, and then it's too late. But it simply can't even become an issue if they don't use the leveling jacks in the first place.

If you don't care what a shop does to your coach, and how they do it, then ignore this thread and move on. If you do care, the reasonable and most low risk approach is to tell the shop to use their own equipment and leave your jacks alone. Why is it so bad to want the shop to do it properly and safely?

I see it as being very similar to having a contractor to your house to do some work. Are you going to have him use your ladder and tools, or do you expect him to be properly equipped and have the right tools, and use them properly? If you do loan him your ladder and tools, are you prepared to accept liability if he is injured while using them? If so, then go ahead and let them use your leveling jacks - but please don't post here if there turns out to be a problem.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:02 AM   #19
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Using a leveling jack lifts the frame that in turn causes suspension parts to lift wheel resulting an a lot of stresses on the suspension and frame while also requiring a lot of rise to get the wheel off the ground for clearance of tire due to the range of the suspension.

Lifting via correct jack is directly to the axle lifting the axle only a few inches to get the wheel off the ground and having normal stresses to rest of frame.

Huge difference!

Yes it can be done but not good.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:37 AM   #20
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TQ60: Now that's the post that brings logic and sanity to the discussion.

I wish I could've summarized my previous post so succinctly (and I'm sure lots of others wish it as well... )
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Old 07-20-2015, 12:09 PM   #21
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> cause the coach to suddenly come down on you

That's for sure. My MH blew a jack hose while just sitting there in the CG and the right rear came down smartly and of course couldn't be raised. I just simply don't get any body part other than an arm under there while up on the jacks.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:33 PM   #22
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Yes, find and pull the fuse(s) before taking it in. Do not rely and telling the service writer or a dashboard note.
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:52 PM   #23
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HWH Joystick-Controlled

I have HWH JOYSTICK-CONTROLLED 210 SERIES LEVELING SYSTEM on my MH and it has an old type round glass fuse on top of the controls. I take it out when I have any work done and they cannot use the jacks at all.

Also, I am a wimp when it comes to crawling under a 16 ton mass of steel, fiberglass, and who knows what else.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:30 PM   #24
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I'm guessing you buy tires every six or seven years....do you really need to be concerned about this. I certainly wouldn't leave my coach unattended while they were changing tires.
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Old 07-20-2015, 11:48 PM   #25
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What about air bags? Just a thought.
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Old 07-21-2015, 06:14 AM   #26
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What about air bags? Just a thought.


What about them? What do they have to do with the discussion?
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Old 07-21-2015, 08:46 AM   #27
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Air bag lifts frame from axle and still leaves wheel on ground.

That would bee a hoot to watch the tire guy try...
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Old 07-21-2015, 09:11 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TQ60 View Post
Air bag lifts frame from axle and still leaves wheel on ground.

That would bee a hoot to watch the tire guy try...
Exactly. Being concerned that the tire shop would use the air bags for changing tires is like being concerned that they will use the microwave to lift the coach...
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