Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-23-2014, 07:40 PM   #43
Registered User
 
mel s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnytaxman View Post
I understand your logic and don't disagree with you. However, do you not deduct mortgage interest on your tax return so that you will pay your fair share? Do you pick up all of your on line purchases on your state returns so that you pay your fair share of sales tax? Do you overstate your non-cash contributions?

Fair share is determined by what the law allows. Whether or not you agree with that law is irrelevant. We deal with all types of taxes, some of which make sense and a lot of them don't. The problem with fair share is that it is someone else who determines what that fair share is. What may be my fair share may not be yours. Therefore we rely on the laws. If you comply with the law and can document that compliance then you are legal. As the full-timer from SD stated, he is in compliance with the law so there is no issue. There is nothing in any tax code that requires someone to overpay their taxes. You pay what you must and deduct what is legal.
wnytaxman
To answer your questions:
1.) I have not been able to deduct mortgage interest since 1998, (but I did when I could)
2.) I have never purchased anything online.
3.) Non-cash contributions? ......I have enough problems paying my share (and some for those who choose not to), without giving things, (or money), away.

It takes a tax man, (or woman), or to figure out what is "allowed'', (as well as any "questionable" deductions).
I have no problem with anyone who pays his share... as long as his share is calculated within the tax code guidelines.

I may overpay my taxes but I can say this: "I'm proud to be a tax paying American"..... (without winking or crossing my fingers).
If you can do the same.....more power to ya!

Mel
__________________

__________________
mel s is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-23-2014, 08:13 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
JFXG's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Today? Mercer, PA
Posts: 3,614
Downside of a Montana LLC?

wnytaxman..... Whenever we try to connect statutes and ethics we open Pandora's box. My Dad- an attorney-- often said 'you cannot legislate morality'. I would offer the observation that we define some things as illegal because they are wrong; we do not define things as wrong solely because they're illegal.

Whenever we see some politician- even a President- caught in a scandalous circumstance, their immediate assertive denial almost always includes the statement "I've done nothing illegal", or "I've broken no law". They are usually very careful to avoid saying "I've done nothing wrong". They know what words mean.

In my opinion (and only my opinion) the Montana LLC question comes down to intent. If you establish a company to carry on business in Montana, and in the course of business this company owns several assets, one of which is a motorhome that the company registers and insures in compliance with Montana rules, and which you, as CEO, are allowed to use as you wish, then I see no problem with that.

But, if you establish a company in Montana, the sole purpose of which company is the ownership of a vehicle such that the vehicle can be said to be owned in Montana and not elsewhere, and the sole asset of this company is a motorhome that the company registers and insures in compliance with Montana rules, and which you, as CEO, are allowed to use as you wish, then in my opinion you are involved in tax evasion. Your sole purpose in establishing the company is to deprive a certain state or municipality of an amount of tax dollars to which they otherwise would have been properly entitled.

It's all in the intent. In my opinion....
__________________

__________________
John & Diane, Fulltimers. RVM103 NHSO
On the road since June '12 with Lincoln, the guard cat.
2002 Dutch Star 40, Freightliner, Cat 3126, 2004 Element
JFXG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2014, 07:49 AM   #45
Senior Member
 
Old Dude 66's Avatar
 
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: North Texas
Posts: 359
Amen to what JFXG said!! Right on target.
__________________
2011 Winnebago Adventurer 35P
Towing a 2014 Jeep Rubicon 4 Door.
Summers in Silverton, Colorado.
Old Dude 66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2014, 08:40 AM   #46
Senior Member
 
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Wainscott, New York
Posts: 101
Intent

I agreed x3
__________________
Stan, Mary, Maggie the Canine Princess & Lucy Princess in Training
2013 Holiday Rambler Ambassador 36pft
2006 Envoy Toad
diva51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2014, 10:07 AM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Western NY
Posts: 2,800
An LLC is not necessarily a business. An LLC is an asset protection tool that many businesses use but establishing an LLC is not establishing a business. The purpose of an LLC is to limit liability for potential lawsuits. Many will establish an LLC to protect their homes from potential lawsuits. To categorize every LLC as a business is not correct. From a tax perspective an LLC is what is referred to as a disregarded entity.

The laws of Montana are not the issue. Yes, Montana does allow LLC's for the sole purpose of owning motorhomes. That is not the issue as it has become a large cottage industry in Montana. The issue is the laws of one's resident state. South Dakota has no issue with the Montana LLC. NY, CA, MA, CO, NJ, and others have a great big issue with the Montana LLC. What does the law of one's resident state say? That is the primary tax question.

Intent is the key ingredient here and I do agree with that. For full timers the use of a Montana LLC is more easily justified than someone who has a stick and brick home in any particular state. If the primary intent of someone who establishes the Montana LLC does so strictly to avoid paying sales tax then the moral issue comes into play.

From a pure tax standpoint, if someone complies with the law of their state and can document that compliance they are within the law regardless of their intent. If, however, they do not comply with the laws of their resident state or they cannot document their compliance then they are outside of the law and will be subject to penalties and interest. The morality issue is something each person has to deal with on their own. What may be right for one will not be right for another.
__________________
2011 Berkshire 390bh (traded) 2018.5 Entegra Aspire 44R on order
wnytaxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2014, 10:44 AM   #48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Western NY
Posts: 2,800
Just to clarify, I am neither advocating the use of the Montana LLC nor condemning those who use that entity structure. My comments are meant to answer the original posters question.
__________________
2011 Berkshire 390bh (traded) 2018.5 Entegra Aspire 44R on order
wnytaxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2014, 11:10 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
mchero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Full Time USA
Posts: 1,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musikboy View Post
Thank you to everyone who responded. Tax evasion is not my goal, saving money is. If I would be in violation of the law, I would not choose that route. Or the solution might possibly be to move to a state where there is no sales tax like NH, but the "registration" fees there are very high. Since I am not trying to create MORE conflict in my life, I think I will let this idea of a Montana LLC be nothing more than an interesting thought and an interesting thread.

I live in NH. My original 93 Pace Arrow Diesel Pusher was costing me anout 600/year registration fees.
When I upgraded to the 07 Discovery Deb & I where afraid to register fearing what it would cost to register!
we where at Salisbury beach MA one weekend, Met a chap who had just purchased his 2014 Discovery for 300K. When he went to register at the town office they wanted something like 6 grand! He ended up doing the Montana LLC thing to avoid,.
When we did go in to register it was only 1200/year... UCH lower than we had expected. Really sucks when your only camping 6 months out of the year. I have found that the NE is not very RV friendly BUT the state has no problem taking money from RV'ers!


Now, we ARE going to start full timing & when we do we will sell the house & register is a different state. All the reading I have done so far points to Florida. Health insurance wise. I strongly suggest checking out the Escapee web site More informed people over on that site.

Keep us posted
__________________
Robert & Deb
07 Discovery 39v FWS Full Timers, Yuma AZ
1K solar - 05 Jeep Grand Cherokee
mchero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 11:46 AM   #50
Senior Member
 
XBoater's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 323
So from following this and reading state sales tax laws, if you purchase an RV with a Montana LLC and store/use it out of state exclusively, you would not be responsible for the taxes to your home state.

It seems every verifiable story has been a case of the Montana registered RV being stored/observed in the persons home state. I assume there must have to be some physical evidence that the RV is being used in your home state for the tax dept to catch on.
__________________
Rich & Michelle
2014 Journey 42E
Chip & Dale, our kitties
XBoater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 12:58 PM   #51
Moderator Emeritus
 
RickO's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Litchfield Park, Arizona
Posts: 10,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by XBoater View Post
So from following this and reading state sales tax laws, if you purchase an RV with a Montana LLC and store/use it out of state exclusively, you would not be responsible for the taxes to your home state.

It seems every verifiable story has been a case of the Montana registered RV being stored/observed in the persons home state. I assume there must have to be some physical evidence that the RV is being used in your home state for the tax dept to catch on.
I tend to agree. What can muddy the waters is when state laws (like Texas I believe) make you sign a document that ALL of your vehicles are being registered in Texas under penalty of perjury. I guess the argument could be made that it is not the individual Texas owner who owns the RV... but rather the Montana LLC... but, it could get sticky I imagine.

Rick

.
__________________
Rick, Nancy, Peanut & Lola our Westie Dogs & Bailey the Sheltie.

2007 Itasca Ellipse 40FD
RickO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 02:18 PM   #52
Senior Member
 
jimbo2013's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,699
Spoke to two large RV dealers both said banks will not approve a Montana deal?
__________________
Newmar Ventana 3933 | Miata close behind
1,060 Watts of Solar | 8 T-105 RE Batteries | Outback controls
HR 38 Endeavor
jimbo2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 02:30 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
XBoater's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 323
That does not appear to be true, if you purchase a vehicle in Texas for "exclusive use out of Texas" it is exempt from tax.

I have read the MA law and it is pretty clear, if the storage and/or use is in MA you owe the tax. Like wnytaxman has been saying make sure to document compliance. Those with the most paper usually win.

I think a lot of this comes down to "who" actually owns the vehicle. If it is titled out of state, then another state can not have claim to it unless it is illegally used, most states do have a limit on the amount of days an out of state vehicle can be in the state, so that would lead to a problem for many parking the RV at home. Once exceeded, you are on the hook.

wnytaxman, do you have any links to specific cases and charges?
__________________
Rich & Michelle
2014 Journey 42E
Chip & Dale, our kitties
XBoater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 09:45 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
dons2346's Avatar
 
Country Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo2013 View Post
Spoke to two large RV dealers both said banks will not approve a Montana deal?
Keep looking. There are a number of finance companies that will finance a LLC. Check the FMCA magazine for possibilities
__________________
dons2346 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2014, 07:18 AM   #55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Western NY
Posts: 2,800
Anytime an LLC is the primary debt holder the finance company or bank will require the member (what the owner of an LLC is called) to personally guarantee the debt. My client who got caught with the Montana LLC here in NY had his unit financed so it really shouldn't be an issue, but the guarantees will be required.

Very few of the Montana LLC's getting caught end up in court so it is difficult to find any real cases to rely on. Most of the situations that I have seen where someone has gotten nailed with the penalties and interest on the failure to pay the sales tax have been so cut and dried that there was no reason to take it to court when you know you're going to lose. By the way, my client had used one of the more prominent Montana attorneys to set up his LLC and when NYS came calling, the Montana attorney said, "You're on your own because I'm not licensed to practice in NY."

The idea of buying a rig and storing it in another state is fine except for one little problem. Now the state you stored the unit in has the right to come back on you for the sales tax not being paid in their state. Ouch! That can hurt just as much if not more than being caught by your own state.

Anyone considering a Montana LLC needs to find out the laws of their residence state and then determine if they can comply with those laws and document that compliance. If they can, then go for it. If they can't then pay the sales tax and sleep at night. It's not rocket science but something even worse.....tax law!
__________________
2011 Berkshire 390bh (traded) 2018.5 Entegra Aspire 44R on order
wnytaxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2014, 06:29 PM   #56
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: California
Posts: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by dons2346 View Post
Keep looking. There are a number of finance companies that will finance a LLC. Check the FMCA magazine for possibilities
I would guess that the higher your credit score the more options
you would have.

In other words, how the title is held becomes much less of
an issue with the dealer and bank.
__________________

__________________
2006 Monaco Diplomat Atrium model, 41'
Cummins ISL-400HP CM850
bukzin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Montana Registration UKGuy MH-General Discussions & Problems 14 04-08-2014 08:09 AM
Things to do and see in Idaho & Montana Stargazer66 Camping Locations, Plans & Trip Reports 28 03-21-2014 04:45 PM
Montana LLC ruffinittoo iRV2.com General Discussion 7 03-07-2014 01:00 PM
Highway 2 Montana rlott2k Navigation, Routes & Roads 16 12-30-2013 04:01 PM
Montana LLC - Old Topic - New Pain MaxTurner1 iRV2.com General Discussion 26 11-15-2013 03:00 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.