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Old 07-21-2018, 07:28 PM   #1
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DP + Gas in tank

I've been lurking here for a few months now ever since purchasing a 1993 Fleetwood American Eagle about a month after this guy:

Our "New" 1991 American Eagle - A Work in Progress

It was a happy coincidence I stumbled upon his post when working out my own solutions. Now I am in a bit of a pickle and hope someone might know the answer.

We are at the tail-end of a "round the USA" trip: California to KY across I-80, then back to CA through TX on the 40 & 10. We are in Tucson, AZ right now. I put in $125 worth of what I thought was Diesel (I've been driving diesel pickups for some time and have never made a mixup, but in KY a BP station had gas on a green handle and I almost did) in Douglas, AZ then finished the day driving to Tucson (evening time) and stopped at the Lazydays KOA. If you have the opportunity to stay here I would say do it, this place is amazing. Offseason prices are ridiculous (~$40/night) and the amenities are phenomenal. I digress.

We got up the next morning to get back on the road and found the motorhome to be running awful. Spewing white (I think) smoke out the back, no power, etc. We thought maybe it needed to be cleaned out so we headed out anyway, but did not even get out of the park gate before turning around to our space and getting another night. Drained the fuel/water separator into a bucket and found it to be a gasoline heavy mixture of both. Rather than draining it onto the ground and flushing with copious amounts of water, we had it towed about half a mile to the International Dealer here (more on them later. not happy.). They took about a day and a half to "drain the tank and flush the lines" to the tune of $800. They said to drive it to get some fuel and warm it up to see if it clears out. It didn't. We went back to the KOA and got another week of time.

After talking to several people it was decided that the first step would be to replace the injectors. I got a set off of eBay and had them overnighted. Took me about 2 days to get them installed properly (learning all the tricks along the way, ugh) and after going to Cummins to get the correct O-Rings (the ones that came were so thing it blew combustion by). Got those in today and the MH runs better, but not good. Which brings me to my current predicament.

It idles poorly, but it does idle on its own. Revving it up a bit (@1k) smooths out some. We took it on about a 5-mile road test. On the road, anything around 1500 RPM just runs awful like its only hitting on a few cylinders. Down-shifting and bringing it up over 2k smooths out considerably and I was even able to get up to speed. It does spew black smoke pretty good, but it's always done that under load. When we jumped off the 10 to turn around we let it idle a bit at the stop light and when we took off there was a literally cloud of black smoke behind us. Almost bad enough to not be able to see the cars behind us. Back on the freeway and left it in 4 and it did pretty good. Got back to the park and no real change; it still idles awful. The white smoke is completely gone now, save for a bit when you have the bed up while it is running and blip the throttle. Some smoke comes out of the exhaust side in the middle of the motor, I'm guessing (hoping) I have a leak.

Before I spend more money, does anyone have any idea where I should go next? I thought perhaps the lift pump first since it is cheap-ish, but apparently the lift pump only engages when you start the motor to get it going. I could certainly be wrong.

If it needs an injection pump I'm not sure what I am going to do. The only ones I could find with the Cummins-referenced part number are @$5k (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-FUE...itleDesc=0%7C0) or the "new" part number @$13k (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cummins-PUM...sid=m570.l1313). If we were anywhere near home I would just take it there any park it to figure out what to do, but we are about 600 miles and 3 significant hill-climbs away from friendly territory.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:40 PM   #2
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OK , for starters , gas and diesel high pressure injector pumps don't mix ... but you know that.
1993 vintage engines ; 5.9 ? 8.3? ; didn't have electric lift pumps , they used mechanical pumps and they pumped continually like a 57 Chevy.
The electric lift pumps didn't come in till 98.
There are no pictures on the , links you provided. I have to ask what your injector pump looks like.
Photo one or two?
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:41 PM   #3
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I'm guessing you have new but bad or wrong injectors.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:43 PM   #4
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It looks like the bottom one. It's a Bosch P7100 from what I can tell. The head scratcher is why it runs like it is all good over 2k, but anything below runs like it is mad at me.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
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I'm guessing you have new but bad or wrong injectors.
That is certainly possible, but it is definitely running better than before I swapped the injectors out. One of the ones I pulled had the nozzle/pintle/whatever-the-shaft-above-the-tip-is-called cracked. Other than that they were rusty but seemed to be in good shape. No missing tips or anything.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:57 PM   #6
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If your engine is a 5.9 , you could source a, P pump off a 94 Dodge/Cummins, P/U used.

BUT; Changing those pumps is a bear; they weigh a ton; and the exact removal procedure has to be followed or you never get it timed right, and could end up with even less power than you have now .

If you have a cracked exhaust manifold , the turbo boost may be low enough in the mid RPM band to give you the black smoke ( over fueling , due to lack of air ) and at the high RPM 2000+ the boost is enough to give proper air/fuel ratio.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip426 View Post
If your engine is a 5.9 , you could source a, P pump off a 94 Dodge/Cummins, P/U used.

BUT; Changing those pumps is a bear; they weigh a ton; and the exact removal procedure has to be followed or you never get it timed right, and could end up with even less power than you have now .

If you have a cracked exhaust manifold , the turbo boost may be low enough in the mid RPM band to give you the black smoke ( over fueling , due to lack of air ) and at the high RPM 2000+ the boost is enough to give proper air/fuel ratio.
It's an 8.3L, but that is a good idea about the exhaust manifold. It has always blown black smoke in a comical fashion. The air filter plugged indicator is also always at maximum pluggage, even though the filter is brand new. Thought it was maybe the fresh air snorkel going up the back of the coach so I ran it with the circular end-cap off for a few miles with the same result.

That is what I gathered about the injection pump. It is listed at 65lbs, but it is also about a foot beyond the opening under the bed. I'd have to rig up a strap pulley system or something.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:23 PM   #8
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Those BP Stations should be fined for using Green handles for GAS !! Won't share my story, but add some Lucas Fuel Treatment. At at least 2x to normal dose and keep filling the tank to clean out any gas residue.

https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-t...fuel-treatment

I got lucky it was less than 10gal of gas in my 100gal tank. I let the genny run for over 2 days to burn as much as it could !!!
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:26 PM   #9
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Those BP Stations should be fined for using Green handles for GAS !! Won't share my story, but add some Lucas Fuel Treatment. At at least 2x to normal dose and keep filling the tank to clean out any gas residue.

https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-t...fuel-treatment

I got lucky it was less than 10gal of gas in my 100gal tank. I let the genny run for over 2 days to burn as much as it could !!!
I had considered Lucas treatment (or Diesel Kleen). Wonder if it would be worth it? Would hate to have some worse problem get even worse by driving it more now. I bought an inspection camera from HF, going to pull the injectors one-by-one and see if I can see any funny business in the bores. One of the injectors I pulled out to change the o-ring had a significant amount of oil on it. Haven't checked the oil for diesel yet, but could be something funky going on.
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:37 AM   #10
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I went out and got the medium-sized bottle of Lucas treatment last night and poured that into the tank. Going to fire it up in a bit and let it idle for a while to see if that changes anything.
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:51 AM   #11
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When you first filled the primary and secondary fuel filters with diesel, did it run OK for a few minutes?

Are you positive the fuel tank is now free of water and anything else other than fresh diesel fuel?

Good luck with this.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:50 AM   #12
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When you first filled the primary and secondary fuel filters with diesel, did it run OK for a few minutes?

Are you positive the fuel tank is now free of water and anything else other than fresh diesel fuel?

Good luck with this.
I don't believe it did, no. Not since the morning, I started it after the gas and diesel had time to mingle.

I am not positive, no. The shop that I paid said they drained the tank and flushed the lines, but I have no real way of telling that to be true or not. I did crack the rear fuel filter drain open and it seems to be pure diesel on it, so that would indicate they did I'm guessing.

Still running pretty poorly after the treatment. Starts white(?) smoking between 1k and 1.5k, but above that, it smooths out. Idle (5-600) is rough, but bring it up toward 8-900 smooths out. Should I try and idle it up?
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:17 AM   #13
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After running for about 30-45 minutes it doesn't seem to be getting any better, and in fact, the exhaust now smells like fuel more than it did. There is also a new(?) water leak on the passenger side of the block that has left an impression on the ground beneath. Not losing any fuel that way that I can see, and the oil doesn't smell like fuel. Coolant looks fine as well, no milkshake that I can detect.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:30 AM   #14
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My father in law thinks it sounds like it is not hitting on all cylinders. The only way I can see that being possible is if there is either a bad injector (or more), or the injection pump is not working correctly. I am not sure how an injection pump works really so I can't say that is even a possibility, but from what I've read that is what everything is pointing toward.

I am hesitant to take it to another shop both because it is hard to trust someone you don't know and because this is our home. The first shop visit was only a day and cost me almost $200 in hotel rooms.

Is there a quick way to tell if the injection pump is working as it should? The thought was to crack and injector line while the engine is running, but I've read that those pressures are upwards of 10k PSI so that doesn't seem like a smart idea.
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