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Old 10-25-2010, 07:23 AM   #43
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This has been a lively and interesting exchange. I see the logic behind running the engine occasionally to remove the water although I wonder how many of us actually run it long enough to accomplish it and I also wonder how much water actually accumulates.

For myself I'm comfortable with changing my oil and fuel filters at 10,000 miles but that will not be annually. I am going to use CAT filters because they were designed for my engine and will do the best job. Upon my first oil change after this I am going to have the oil tested and see what's up. Depending on what it says I will adjust accordingly. I may go longer, then again I may move it up.

I store my coach in an totally enclosed unheated bay and I will have Battery Tenders going on all batteries. Other than that I am going to let the 'ol girl rest through the winter. I think that it's entirely likely that starting it up and running it in extreme cold conditions does more harm than good.

Thanks to all of you and your responses, it has helped me to clarify my thoughts.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:47 AM   #44
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Where is Don Herbert when we really need a scientist?
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:56 AM   #45
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You are right UltraKen most manufacturers do say that. But they will also tell you to go by the engine oil analysis.

I imagine that 98% of the drivers do not do a Engine Oil Analysis or even know how to do one, so the manufacturers give you some kind of guide lines.

Have you ever pulled a U-Haul trailer? Here the manufacturer of the trailer post not to exceed 45 mph. Why? You know the trailer will go faster then 45. It is called CYA.

What it all comes down too is the test. If the analysis reports that the oil is still useable then why dump it. Simple, is it not.

I guess my main beef is that you always here, keep this place clean, watch out for the environment, do not waste energy, the oil companies are stealing from us,,,, but,,,,, lets dump our oil every 3000 miles.
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:48 AM   #46
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for those who have done the anlaysis in the past, any good or bad experience with any particular company that does them. It is that time of the year, and maybe I will try the anlayisis this time. I only put on about 5000 - 6000 miles ayear rigth now.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:17 PM   #47
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Hey, you guys do what you want to. I was only putting in my 2 cents, based on only about 35 years of working on, (never classed as a mechanic thank God), motorcycles, cars, trucks, boats, ships with lots of different types of diesel engines, most of them in very harsh conditions. The little but fantastic 5.9 Cummings engine in my coach has it made. It could probably go 20000 miles with no problem. When I dump my oil I recycle it, goes right to the golden state oil co, $0.99 a quart. The extreme amount of oil agitation in a high rpm diesel, I believe these would be in that class, low rpm being like 50, would "in my opinion" keep the oil and water well mixed, at normal high idle rpm 2,000 or so and normal temp of 175-210 would quickly evap the small amount of water in the oil. I'm sure a lot out there have a lot more experience with engines etc. than me. Like I said "in my opinion" and my opinion is not always right.
My two cents on how much water actually accumulates would be how much difference in air temp and humidty the engine is subject to during storage period. Going from 10 degrees to 60 degrees with high humidty and the engine warming and cooling the same would generate more condensation than an engine that stayed at 30 degrees all the time. Some diesels normally get a lot of water into them while running throught the head area, the cylinder liner seals but my engine uses zero water so I would assume that the Cummings engine has few issues with water going from the cooling system into the oil. Good engine desiqn. Was around Cat 3126's some but don't remember their water use so it was probably zero. Like I said earlier, draining of oil is suggested for long term storage but this is not practical, I couldn't do it because I use my MH all year due to warm weather at times during the winter. The only way to tell how much water is actually in engine at end of winter woukld be to drain oil and let it settle in clear container or seperate out.
Probably very, very little. IMO.
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:16 PM   #48
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Since a lot of the concerns seem to be about water in the oil here is what my oil analysis showed on water "less then 0.1" now this is on oil that was put in my engine in Jul 2009 afte 5800 miles and sitting beside the house from 8 Aug thru 13 Oct and driven 15 miles to have the oil sample taken. According to my analysis I could have just changed filters this year. You can bet an oil change that the oil analysis next year will determine if I change oil or just filters.
Living in Utah a lot of my miles are pulling some pretty good grades. If anyone is really interested I could try to post the oil analysis.
This good exchange of info from everyone has really helped me to understand what I need to do to take care of my engine and at the same time, my wallet.
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:56 PM   #49
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I'm interested Joe. Done oil samples for work and can't remember seeing complete analysis, only the bad things. Sounds like one thousandth of 5 gallons of water in your oil? Could be wrong on this number. Maybe I'll go the oil sample route, i just don't want a engine problem due to oil system problem, even thought according to Cat, more engine failures are due to cooling system problems.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:47 PM   #50
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Well, there's lots of opinions, and there's probably a particle of truth in each one of them.

I've run an agricultural diesel engine machine shop for about 40 years. We've seen crankshafts, and cylinder sleeves, and cylinder blocks, and cylinder heads from diesel engines in all kinds of condition.

I've often seen these parts in our shop from engines with 15,000 hours on them, and they look like brand new. 15,000 hours X 50 MPH = 750,000 miles, and on agricultural engines, those hours have been spent under full governed load. Every time I see high hour engine parts that look like brand new, I ask the owner, "How have you maintained your engine?"

Without exception, the answer is: the oil and filter was changed every 100 hours (equivalent to 5000 miles under full governed load). The oil and filter was changed just before putting the engine into storage for the winter. The antifreeze was replaced every fall just before putting the engine into storage. The air filter(s) were kept clean through the season, and replaced in the fall before putting the engine into storage.

This has impressed me so much that I change my oil and filter every 5000 miles, and I also change it before I put the coach into storage for more than three months. I change the antifreeze every fall, and I use the PH strips to check the condition of the antifreeze. I replace the fuel filters once a year. I replace the air filter once a year. I change the belt once a year, and put the old one into the storage bin, and discard the one from the year before.

With over 125,000 miles on our coach, and it's still running like the day it left the factory, I think I'm doing something right.

But I'm intending to keep what I have for quite a while yet. Those that just want to use it for a while, and pass it on to someone else may decide to save a few pennies on oil, filters, and antifreeze.

Also, these things aren't all that expensive for me, because I buy them wholesale, and I do all that work myself. No doubt it will be different for others on a tight budget that have to pay retail and hire all the work done.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:29 PM   #51
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I tried to scan it in but it came out so light that it couldn't be read so I'll just put it on here as to what my readings were and what is either acceptable or signs of problems. Overall mine was good.

physical properties
Water <0.1 considered severe at greater than 1%

Glycol ND presence indicates coolant leak - abnormal @ greater than 0.2%

Fuel Dilution <2.0 potential problems between 2% and less than 5%

Oxidation <2.0 values greater than 25 an oil change is recommended

Viscosity 14.4 15w40 oil should be between 12.5 and 16.3 this measurement tells you if the oil is too thick or too thin. It's a calculated measurement of an indication of the oils ability to flow and lube the engines moving parts.

TBN=Total Base Number 10.6 it's a calculated measurement of the oils alkaline reserve (additive) package of the oil that is capable of neutralizing acidic contaminants, primarily formed by the adsorption of combustion gases and the aging of the oil. Combustion by-products are the source of the strongest acids, therefore, over-extended oil drain intervals, insufficient additive package or overheating are causes for a low TBN. A TBN of 3 or less is an indication that the oil is no longer serviceable and needs changing.

The numbers and letters in RED are what my old oil measured, the ND means not detected.

From the way I read this I could have safely ran that oil another year. My oil analysis cost $22.00 and was done by Freightliner in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Any questions?????????
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:31 AM   #52
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Thanks for posting that info Joe. Very informative and took a little keystroking huh?
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:49 AM   #53
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Yeah Joe. I've been following this thread trying to make sense of oil analysis. Your's cleared up most of my questions. And I'm sure it won't end with your post.

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Old 10-26-2010, 07:48 AM   #54
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Joe, may I ask what oil and filter you use? Synthetic??

Your TBN is a great number. Last July I had a very low TBN, 4.2, so I went to drain my oil and filter. When I pulled the filter off it was empty. HUH???? Turned out that something was wrong in my oil filter mount and the oil was being bypassed.

I have no idea how long it had been this way but the filter had been installed for one year.

The CAT shop fixed the problem installed a new filter not the oil. They wanted me to wait for about four months and take another test. That four months will be in about 4 weeks. Will post back and let you know if a new filter took care of it.
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:28 AM   #55
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All of my service to my CAT 300 has been done by Freightliner in Salt Lake City. The oil is Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15w40, the filter is a Fleetwood LF667. I'm going to check the difference between this filter and the CAT filter, other then $$$.

When I was reading my engine book it says when you change the oil filter you must crank the engine for 30 seconds (without starting) to pump oil into the filter. For those of you who change your own CAT oil filters how do you do that.
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:42 AM   #56
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That is a good question. I bought a funnel with a built in filter so I run the oil thru the funnel into the filter then install the filter. That is how the CAT shop does it so I just copied them.

I have the HEUI pump so not sure how to crank unless I install fuel shut off valve. From what I understand I do not have an electronic fuel solenoid that I could just lift a wire and crank.
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