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Old 07-12-2016, 03:23 PM   #15
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Local Cummins dlr advertises dpf cleaning for $249. They dont say how much to remove and replace it.
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmurdock View Post
Exactly! Without getting too complicated think of a DPF like a catylitic converter (it's a "thing") and DEF is fluid which is injected into the exhaust. With DEF injection and other changes, the DPF doesn't have to work as hard but it is still part of the emissions system.
The diesel particulate filter does just what it's name implies, it mechanically removes the black soot from diesel exhaust. It does nothing else.

Diesel exhaust fluid is used by the selective catalyst (SCR) to reduce oxides of nitrogen emissions (NOX). It does not reduce the amount of soot in the exhaust or make the DPF's job easier.

The soot mass in the DPF is mathematically calculated based on the amount of fuel used and the pressure differential between the exhaust gasses before and after the filter. When the ECM determines the soot mass has reached it's limits it goes into a passive regeneration where the soot is incinerated and turned to ash. Some diesel engines use late post injection to deliver fuel to a diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC), while some use a dedicated low pressure injector to introduce fuel into the exhaust. The DOC consumes the fuel and generates the heat required for soot incineration, usually between 1050f and 1250f. This is only done on an as needed basis of course. Sometimes a diesel engine is not operated on the highway long enough to complete a regen, so in that situation an active regen must be done by a technician with the vehicle stationary. It's not a big deal but it can take an hour or more.

The system is monitored by exhaust gas temp sensors, pressure differential sensors and NOX sensors. Once you get to know what they all do and what sensor values are good and bad, diagnosing them isn't really that difficult.

I think those of you who purposely disable and remove the emission equipment from your diesel engines should be fined and/or jailed for doing so. The DEF system alone reduces NOX emissions by 75% or more. By disabling or removing this equipment your are contributing to air pollution, the air that everyone breathes, and the air that my children and grandchildren have to breath. Some may not like what I have said, you know who you are.

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Old 07-12-2016, 11:50 PM   #17
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Our DPF has been replace twice now in 45,000 miles. The first time under warranty when the engine dropped a valve in #6. The last time was at 45,000 when the engine again dropped a valve and they also found the DPF was cracked. No rebuilts were available so a new, $3,600 one was installed. No idea as to the labor cost as it was included in the engine rebuild cost.
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Old 07-13-2016, 12:47 AM   #18
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I was at Cummins Rocky Mountain getting some filters a week ago, and in the showroom they had an ISX in the crate on display. I immediately thought of your troubles with that engine.
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Old 07-13-2016, 04:37 AM   #19
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This is why I will not own a diesel with this crap on it, totally goes against what a diesel is designed to do.
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Old 07-13-2016, 04:57 AM   #20
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DPF's are not required by law. Meeting emissions standards is required. DPF's is HOW OEM's are meeting the emissions requirements.
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Old 07-13-2016, 05:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Agaveguy View Post
The diesel particulate filter does just what it's name implies, it mechanically removes the black soot from diesel exhaust. It does nothing else.

Diesel exhaust fluid is used by the selective catalyst (SCR) to reduce oxides of nitrogen emissions (NOX). It does not reduce the amount of soot in the exhaust or make the DPF's job easier.

The soot mass in the DPF is mathematically calculated based on the amount of fuel used and the pressure differential between the exhaust gasses before and after the filter. When the ECM determines the soot mass has reached it's limits it goes into a passive regeneration where the soot is incinerated and turned to ash. Some diesel engines use late post injection to deliver fuel to a diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC), while some use a dedicated low pressure injector to introduce fuel into the exhaust. The DOC consumes the fuel and generates the heat required for soot incineration, usually between 1050f and 1250f. This is only done on an as needed basis of course. Sometimes a diesel engine is not operated on the highway long enough to complete a regen, so in that situation an active regen must be done by a technician with the vehicle stationary. It's not a big deal but it can take an hour or more.

The system is monitored by exhaust gas temp sensors, pressure differential sensors and NOX sensors. Once you get to know what they all do and what sensor values are good and bad, diagnosing them isn't really that difficult.

I think those of you who purposely disable and remove the emission equipment from your diesel engines should be fined and/or jailed for doing so. The DEF system alone reduces NOX emissions by 75% or more. By disabling or removing this equipment your are contributing to air pollution, the air that everyone breathes, and the air that my children and grandchildren have to breath. Some may not like what I have said, you know who you are.

Is it against the Law to remove this from a RV? if so what is the statute?
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Old 07-13-2016, 09:34 AM   #22
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Agaveguy, thanks for the great tutorial. I believe some rv's have the ability to do a manual regen by the customer but that is based on hearsay. What do you say?

I suspect that Cummins had a steep learning curve when they first started using these things. Perhaps that is why they did two flash upgrades on my ecm. They said it would help prevent problems for me in the future.

I wonder if poor regeneration parameters could contribute to back pressure causing burned valves?
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:09 PM   #23
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Google DPF delete, program and a piece of pipe....just sayin
If I could afford a nice newer diesel rig, I would do everything in my power to have the entire DEF system fork lifted out of the coach and sent to the scrap yard...

DEF=Dang Environmental Falsehood

My next coach and possible last coach will be pre DEF!
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:32 PM   #24
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If I could afford a nice newer diesel rig, I would do everything in my power to have the entire DEF system fork lifted out of the coach and sent to the scrap yard...

DEF=Dang Environmental Falsehood

My next coach and possible last coach will be pre DEF!
We can afford one, but why? I read to many horror stories about new, I don't do well paying a lot of $$ for something that spends time getting Warranty work because of ones lack to do their job!
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Old 07-13-2016, 02:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agaveguy View Post
The diesel particulate filter does just what it's name implies, it mechanically removes the black soot from diesel exhaust. It does nothing else.

Diesel exhaust fluid is used by the selective catalyst (SCR) to reduce oxides of nitrogen emissions (NOX). It does not reduce the amount of soot in the exhaust or make the DPF's job easier.

The soot mass in the DPF is mathematically calculated based on the amount of fuel used and the pressure differential between the exhaust gasses before and after the filter. When the ECM determines the soot mass has reached it's limits it goes into a passive regeneration where the soot is incinerated and turned to ash. Some diesel engines use late post injection to deliver fuel to a diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC), while some use a dedicated low pressure injector to introduce fuel into the exhaust. The DOC consumes the fuel and generates the heat required for soot incineration, usually between 1050f and 1250f. This is only done on an as needed basis of course. Sometimes a diesel engine is not operated on the highway long enough to complete a regen, so in that situation an active regen must be done by a technician with the vehicle stationary. It's not a big deal but it can take an hour or more.

The system is monitored by exhaust gas temp sensors, pressure differential sensors and NOX sensors. Once you get to know what they all do and what sensor values are good and bad, diagnosing them isn't really that difficult.

I think those of you who purposely disable and remove the emission equipment from your diesel engines should be fined and/or jailed for doing so. The DEF system alone reduces NOX emissions by 75% or more. By disabling or removing this equipment your are contributing to air pollution, the air that everyone breathes, and the air that my children and grandchildren have to breath. Some may not like what I have said, you know who you are.

Great information. The Maxxforce 13 and 15 liter engines did not pass the latest EPA requirements and I think have to adapt the DEF system. The Maxxforce 10 passed and did not require the DEF system. I'm curious as to how this was accomplished. I've only done 1 active regen in 20k miles and that was at my request sitting at a rest area during a storm after being in heavy traffic the day before. I probably could have hit the highway and been fine with a passive regen.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:11 PM   #26
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2008 ISC, 80,000 MILES, no problems whatsoever with the DPF.
I only by fuel from high volume name brand locations, I rarely
idle more than 3-4 minutes, I do occasionally see a re-gen light
if in stop and go traffic for a long period. I have never started the
engine without driving at least 20 miles. I do put in a storage
additive for the 5 months it is sitting in storage. As noted, it is
basically a catalytic converter. I suspect some of the problems are
in coaches with low miles that are lightly used, or folks that happen
to get a few tanks of poor quality fuel. JMHO.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:16 PM   #27
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I use the Volkswagen system on mine.
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Old 07-13-2016, 03:41 PM   #28
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Couple of questions for a newbie -

My Ford always announced it was cleaning exhaust, and I was able to make sure it finished, but I have never seen any indication on the Cummins/Freightliner that it is cleaning other than consumption of DEF. Is there supposed to be a dash light or something in the info center?

I don't think the generator (Onan 8K) has anything on it, true? I know I have two fills on the generator, but I'm under the assumption the second is for coolant, not DEF?
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