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Old 07-17-2016, 09:30 AM   #85
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THS Hammer

I can assure you my Cat C-9 engine in my 2009 Safari Cheetah does have a DPF and requires regeneration. I'm not sure what engine you are referring to but your post doesn't help at all with my question. You seem to want to impress with your knowledge so how about answering my question. A Country Coach with a C-9 has a manual regen switch. A Monaco coach with the same engine doesn't. What would it take to install a manual regen switch in my coach?


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Are you sure the Emissions on yours is a DPF and not the Pizza burner THS Hammer is referring to? (here we go) my terminology is not correct, Trucker Slang.
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Old 07-17-2016, 10:07 AM   #86
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I'm sure that I've had 3 different Caterpillar dealers do a forced regeneration on my engine because it wouldn't regenerate on its own and clear the failure to ignite fault code.

There are more than a few threads on here discussing the Cat C-9 not regenerating and clearing out the DPF.

Once again you guys seem more interested in impressing each other than helping solve a problem.


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Old 07-17-2016, 10:32 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by tbfirm View Post
I'm sure that I've had 3 different Caterpillar dealers do a forced regeneration on my engine because it wouldn't regenerate on its own and clear the failure to ignite fault code.

There are more than a few threads on here discussing the Cat C-9 not regenerating and clearing out the DPF.

Once again you guys seem more interested in impressing each other than helping solve a problem.


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Your Welcome, go see your Cat dealer
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Old 07-17-2016, 10:58 AM   #88
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they all use def today. Navigate used credits to put it off but in the end they could not meet the new EPA standards without it. They almost went out of business went their engines could not meet the standard.
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Old 07-17-2016, 12:30 PM   #89
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I've built a few engines in my time and took the Exhaust Gas Recycle (EGR) system off my F350 6.0. Keep in mind EGR systems recycle only a portion of the exhaust gases. The job began by taking the intake etc. off to get to the valley between the heads. I replaced the oil cooler that sits below the EGR system. It's advisable to replace the cooler when your oil and water temps are more than 15-20 degrees apart. I use the Edge Programmer and have the exhaust temp. probe. The EGR system consisted of an up tube split on the passenger side of the exhaust which recycles hot exhaust through a tube assembly with a tubular radiator assembly in the center to cool the exhaust gas. This hot exhaust gas is reburned through the engine. A good indication that you've got issues is if your adding more coolant. That means your cooler assembly is leaking water into the hot gas that is being reburned. This can also rust parts of the turbo. There is also a valve in the assembly that varies the amount of hot exhaust gas to recycle. The benefits are.. 2-3 MPG improvement, oil temps dropped 20 degrees and the exhaust temps dropped about 200 degrees. A secondary benefit was cleaner oil. No longer does it look dirty after only a few miles. Most diesels use a similar system.
Ok great, you know where the EGR valve is located on your engine and how it is plumbed. But I was asking if anyone actually knows what purpose introducing inert gas back into the combustion chamber actually serves.

Don't get me wrong guys, I get it that removing the emission systems on your diesels reduces the amount of out of pocket expenses that you would normally have to pay should you experience a breakdown of those parts. My whole beef with it is those systems were put there to reduce tailpipe emissions from a dirty diesel engine. Removing them for your own personal benefit is a total disregard for the environment, air quality and laws put in place to guarantee everyone's right to breath clean air.

Fwiw, the improvement in fuel economy when using your Edge programmer increases the NOX emissions by huge amounts.

The company that makes the Edge was fined $500,000 by the EPA and was forced to offer refunds and to convert any vehicle their product was installed on back to stock. As I understand it, the fine would have been much more but was reduced based on the company's ability to actually pay it. There were other manufacturers of power up devices fined too.

The question still stands regarding the purpose of the EGR valve.

I also have to ask this... Does anyone feel that any increases in performance that may be gained by removing the EGR and DPF/DEF systems outweighs the benefits of cleaner tailpipe emissions by leaving them on? Do you feel you are above the law? Do you care if your diesel engine pollutes the air? It's ok be honest.



This is almost as good as the gas vs diesel debate.
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Old 07-17-2016, 01:08 PM   #90
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Still, no answer on how to do a manual regen on a 400ISL?
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Old 07-17-2016, 01:22 PM   #91
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Well if there is no switch on the I/P Cummins probably doesn't want the owner to do a manual regen, the software in the ECM takes care of that. You will likely need to use a scan tool to initiate a manual regen.

My ISB does not give me the ability to do it either.
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Old 07-17-2016, 04:46 PM   #92
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Still, no answer on how to do a manual regen on a 400ISL?
Invest in a Pro Link or take it to a Cummins dealer, thats all I got, if you had a Cat I would say bring it over and I'll hook you up.
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Old 07-17-2016, 05:32 PM   #93
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Ok great, you know where the EGR valve is located on your engine and how it is plumbed. But I was asking if anyone actually knows what purpose introducing inert gas back into the combustion chamber actually serves.



The question still stands regarding the purpose of the EGR valve.



I also have to ask this... Does anyone feel that any increases in performance that may be gained by removing the EGR and DPF/DEF systems outweighs the benefits of cleaner tailpipe emissions by leaving them on? Do you feel you are above the law? Do you care if your diesel engine pollutes the air?

From wiki. Easier than typing it.

In internal combustion engines, exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is a nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions reduction technique used in petrol/gasoline and diesel engines. EGR works by recirculating a portion of an engine's exhaust gas back to the engine cylinders. This dilutes the O2 in the incoming air stream and provides gases inert to combustion to act as absorbents of combustion heat to reduce peak in-cylinder temperatures. NOx is produced in a narrow band of high cylinder temperatures and pressures.

I did not see any measurable improvement in performance on my 2008 F350 6.4L. I removed it to prevent the regeneration process; the exhaust gas temperature of 1200F through the manifolds and turbo really taxed the mechanical/lubrication/cooling systems. I did not like that.

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Old 07-17-2016, 06:17 PM   #94
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Ok great, you know where the EGR valve is located on your engine and how it is plumbed. But I was asking if anyone actually knows what purpose introducing inert gas back into the combustion chamber actually serves.

Don't get me wrong guys, I get it that removing the emission systems on your diesels reduces the amount of out of pocket expenses that you would normally have to pay should you experience a breakdown of those parts. My whole beef with it is those systems were put there to reduce tailpipe emissions from a dirty diesel engine. Removing them for your own personal benefit is a total disregard for the environment, air quality and laws put in place to guarantee everyone's right to breath clean air.

Fwiw, the improvement in fuel economy when using your Edge programmer increases the NOX emissions by huge amounts.

The company that makes the Edge was fined $500,000 by the EPA and was forced to offer refunds and to convert any vehicle their product was installed on back to stock. As I understand it, the fine would have been much more but was reduced based on the company's ability to actually pay it. There were other manufacturers of power up devices fined too.

The question still stands regarding the purpose of the EGR valve.

I also have to ask this... Does anyone feel that any increases in performance that may be gained by removing the EGR and DPF/DEF systems outweighs the benefits of cleaner tailpipe emissions by leaving them on? Do you feel you are above the law? Do you care if your diesel engine pollutes the air? It's ok be honest.



This is almost as good as the gas vs diesel debate.
Here you go......
The first EGR valves were simple orifices that directed exhaust gas back into the engine. They resulted in several problems, including difficulty starting, poor fuel economy, rough idle and poor performance. Manufacturers redesigned the EGR valve to use the manifold vacuum to keep the valve closed when starting the engine and open it once the engine reached a certain temperature. Although most engines continue to use the EGR valve to meet 2014 emission standards, some manufacturers are finding options that eliminate the valve while still meeting the requirements.



Under normal combustion, Nitrogen (N2) Oxygen (O2) in the air and Hydrocarbons (HC) in the fuel combined into water (H2O) Carbon dioxide (CO2) and the Nitrogen remains unchanged.
Under very hot combustion temperatures, the Nitrogen reacts with the other two byproducts and forms Nitrogen oxide (NO). After being released into the atmosphere, it picks up Oxygen and becomes Nitrogen dioxide (NO2).
In the presence of sunlight, it combines with other compounds like Hydrocarbons and forms Smog. Since exhaust gas is inert (very stable) it doesn’t burn again. So by being introduced into the combustion chamber, it will lower combustion chamber temps enough so that the Nitrogen doesn’t react with the other compounds and is passed unchanged out the tailpipe thus not contributing to smog.

If you have stuck open EGR valve then you will experiences rough idling and occasional stalling but you will have no affect on high speed driving.

If the EGR valve is stuck close then the engine will be producing excessive NOX pollution.

Operating EGR valve does not open when you're on wide open throttle, passing someone or under heavy load such as going uphill or towing.
EGR valve opens when you're at cruising mode. Nobody on this planet earth will notice EGR valve opening and closing while driving steady highway speed...period!

Also, the Edge issue was for DPF not the EGR and for model years 2007 and beyond. Mines a 2006.

EPA statement..
Between January 2009 and April 2011, Edge manufactured and sold a variety of electronic devices intended for use with model year 2007 and later GM, Ford, and Dodge diesel pickup trucks, which allowed users to reprogram a truck’s computer so that the check engine light would not illuminate and the vehicle would continue to run even after the DPF had been completely removed. In total, Edge sold more than 9,000 of these products nationwide under the Edge Racing brand name. In doing so, Edge violated the provisions of Title II of the Clean Air Act (CAA), which prohibit the manufacture and sale of parts or components that defeat or bypass an emission control device that is installed on a motor vehicle.
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Old 07-17-2016, 07:05 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by BrianGlenn View Post
From wiki. Easier than typing it.

In internal combustion engines, exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is a nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions reduction technique used in petrol/gasoline and diesel engines. EGR works by recirculating a portion of an engine's exhaust gas back to the engine cylinders. This dilutes the O2 in the incoming air stream and provides gases inert to combustion to act as absorbents of combustion heat to reduce peak in-cylinder temperatures. NOx is produced in a narrow band of high cylinder temperatures and pressures.

I did not see any measurable improvement in performance on my 2008 F350 6.4L. I removed it to prevent the regeneration process; the exhaust gas temperature of 1200F through the manifolds and turbo really taxed the mechanical/lubrication/cooling systems. I did not like that.

Brian
Ok we have a winner. Yes the EGR valve introduces some of the cooled, inert spent exhaust gas back into the cylinder reducing the overall combustion temp and will help eliminate the formation of NOX.

Very few actually know what EGR does and why. There are actually OEM software calibration updates that can be installed to eliminate some of the problems associated with EGR operation. The 2011 and newer engines have EGR cooler bypass valves in operation that eliminate problems completely.
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