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Old 01-01-2016, 04:02 PM   #1
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Dragging oil pan 2003 CC Allure Cascade

Hi All
New to the Rv world / First time posting...Old topic.looking for latest, greatest advice from fellow sufferers.
After a lot of time spent researching used DPs..finally took the plunge as 4th owner of 2003 CC allure cascade 370
My ever-evolving "things to do" list just got rearranged when the fellows at Speedco informed me that they where just barely able to get the drain plug out because of the pan getting dragged. Of all the things that i considered during the last year of research, dragging the oil pan on a 12 year old tag axle DP wasn't in the top 25 things I thought of.
I'm going to skip all the useless hand-wringing, crying, pointing fingers, etc. and ask for a summary of what all my fellow 370/400 oil pan draggers have done to fix the problem.
Since I discovered this probem, I have been surfing the web and most of the discussions are 10+ years old....and have gone stale...can't find links to photos, etc
Thanks in advance for any and all replies
Jack
2003 CC allure cascade 370isL
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Old 01-01-2016, 04:41 PM   #2
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Well Jack,
Without pointing fingers as you say, the first thing you have ask yourself is, "Why is it drug in the first place?" I mean, in all the time I've been on these RV forums, I personally have never read of any coach manufacturer setting up any coach, no matter what brand/make/model/year/chassis etc. that had or has, a frame or chassis so low that the oil pan drags, in any condition what so ever.

Now, can it happen, yeah, sure it can, under extreme circumstances. i.e. maybe running along an extremely rutted dirt road, climbing over rocks, and any other situation where a normal DP is not normally involved in. So, you're asking what can be done in the future of your coach, to prevent it from happening again?

First off, is your suspension at proper ride height? Are the air bags filling as they're supposed to and your coach is riding at the height it's supposed to? Is it possible ( And I personally can't EVER see this happening) that your engine's motor mounts have failed and, that engine is riding lower than it's supposed to?

I mean, for the life of me, I can't see how any manufacturer would set up a coach so that the oil pan is endangered of damage, during regular driving/parking/camping/ operations.
Scott
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Old 01-01-2016, 04:56 PM   #3
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The Allison hangs a lot lower than the oil pan, Granted, it is in front of the oil pan, but not by much...........I could see backing into something, but not hitting the pan going forward.........Can you post a side view of your pan hanging down?
Here is a close up of mine, can't even see the oil pan........
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Old 01-01-2016, 05:00 PM   #4
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I agree, the motor usually sits up high between the rail. In my case the trailer hitch drags long before it gets close to the engine dragging.

I would check ride height for sure as per the previous post check your motor mounts.

Next is to invest in is a set of rollers
Ultra Fab 2.5 Hitch Mount Solid Steel Roller Skid Wheel 2 pack - ..

I installed a set of these to help when I'm towing my Jeep. The hitch doesn't drag but the tow bar will sometimes hit on steep grades into fuel stations etc.
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Old 01-01-2016, 05:31 PM   #5
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I would think that that coach either got badly stuck and had to get dragged out or it ran over some debris on the road somewhere. I would have a good look at the rest of the under carriage as well.

Ways to prevent, don't run over anything big.
Last year I ran over a rock the size of a basket ball and the only damage was to the toad.
It left a few marks underneath but did not damage anything. I came around a sharp corner and there was oncoming traffic so I could not get around it. It does happen.
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Old 01-01-2016, 05:57 PM   #6
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I suspect backing over something such as a tall parking curb in the back of a campsite or parking spot might do it. Doubtful it would be the airbags, as I think the running gear height is not effected by the inflation of the airsprings.

Mike
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Old 01-01-2016, 06:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJFZ View Post
I suspect backing over something such as a tall parking curb in the back of a campsite or parking spot might do it. Doubtful it would be the airbags, as I think the running gear height is not effected by the inflation of the airsprings.

Mike
What do you mean by "Running Gear" Mike? The axle? I am guessing......
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Old 01-01-2016, 06:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJFZ View Post
I suspect backing over something such as a tall parking curb in the back of a campsite or parking spot might do it. Doubtful it would be the airbags, as I think the running gear height is not effected by the inflation of the airsprings.

Mike
Agree, I have been thinking about this and I cannot figure out how this could happen short of lifting the back of the coach and setting down over a stump or similar obstruction.
Are you sure that the pan was in fact dragged? Sounds bizarre.
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Old 01-01-2016, 07:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJFZ View Post
I suspect backing over something such as a tall parking curb in the back of a campsite or parking spot might do it. Doubtful it would be the airbags, as I think the running gear height is not effected by the inflation of the airsprings.

Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse89 View Post
What do you mean by "Running Gear" Mike? The axle? I am guessing......
"Doubtful it would be the air bags...." Yeah, I kind-a wondered about that statement too. "Running gear" in this case might mean the axle(s) etc. but, not the engine and trans. Those are attached to the frame which, is lowered and raised as the coaches air suspension is inflated/deflated. And therefore, when deflated will be at a lower height. But, if that's the case, then the front too would/should be lower which, quite possibly would/could cause front wheel-well damage if it was driven with lowered air suspension due to the wheels/tires possibly coming in contact with fender/skirting area during turning, due to lower ride height.

But, we'll see when the OP gets back to us.
Scott
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:00 PM   #10
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Thanks for the replies.......your responses pretty much mirrored my own.
From researching the web I came across some forum threads that were a decade old. Ostensibly, CC ran into some clearance problems when they changed from the ISC to the ISL motors and then combined that with a tag axle and a bedroom slide. Their cure for the clearance problem was to drop the engine lower. CC was supplying some sort of bolt on system, initially, at no cost....probably during the warranty period.....later there were reports of the repairs costing anywhere from $300-900.
Some owners of 2004 Allures indicated they had the "fix" already installed when they purchased the coach.

My 03 is resting comfortably about 25 miles away so I can't run out and take a picture.........but just to give you an idea of what it looks like.....where palehorse's jack stand is, ....thats about the level of the transmission then the shallow part of the pan is about the same level then the sump drops down about 4 inches........the drain plug is about 6.5 inches from the ground

The two owners before me kept most if not all receipts in a binder......so I started reading in depth and found some info that I had glossed over originally, in that it appeared to be normal oil changes......but page two or three of the invoice included oil pan, gasket, isolator bolts, etc.........
From what I can tell, this thing is on it's fourth oil pan.....the first several were replacements of the original type which was composite....the current one is steel
For all i know the original owner might have replaced the thing a couple of times two
Lots of replacing, but no curing of the problem
Ride height is correct
Thanks again
Jack
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:02 PM   #11
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I would place a call to Oregon Motorcoach and to Kevin Waite and pick their brain.
I do know that the ISL sets lower in the chassis than the ISC. I woild check your ride height again just to make sure.
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Old 01-02-2016, 12:27 AM   #12
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Wow, now it kinda makes sense. Learn something new on here every day. Good luck with your fix.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:54 AM   #13
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I just received my skid wheels from Amazon the other day.....they have to be welded on. The shop I'm going to indicated they could fabricate something to help.
I didn't front load the story with the CC specific history because I thought I was the last one on earth to discover the problem.....hence, discovered the reason I got such a good price for the coach!
I spent the better part of a year looking over and under various coaches most of which were Newmars. I never saw any kind of clearance problems on the DS and MA models. Eventually, I started looking at some "orphan" coaches like American Coach and Country Coach. By that time, I was looking for leakage and not clearance.....my bad,,,,,got lazy
The first time I heard anything scrape, I went back and checked it out....needless to say, you could have knocked me over with a feather.....
I spent 25+ years driving buses (Greyhound) and tanker trucks(Ultramar) and never dragged anything. We would take those 'Hounds back into the back woods to drop off/pick up Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts and the MCIs never dragged.....anything......ever
so , I, too, am amazed that these things ever were offered for sale....
Now.......just want to try and do something besides replacing the pan every year.....yikes
I have seen Kevin Waite's name mentioned on several forums so I will get in touch with him
Thanks again .........Happy New Year!! Happy Travels !
Jack

2003 CC Allure Cascade 370 #30832
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Old 01-02-2016, 12:06 PM   #14
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JACK.370ISL

Sometimes bad things happen when driving on and off car ferries. Depending on the wheelbase, break over angle and ride height, the back of the coach, or for that matter even the front end, could get swatted.
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