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Old 11-21-2013, 09:58 PM   #1
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Engine Shutdown-No 12v power at all

When it rains it pours! I have a second unrelated issue with my 04 Monaco Windsor with a Cummins ISL engine.

Today while trying to diagnose my air brake issue, I started my coach normally and was letting it idle and air up. Without any warning, the engine shut down. No alarm, no lights, no power to anything 12 volt. I opened the door to step outside and the step wouldn't come out.

Everything was dead!

I went outside to the rear electrical panel to check for a tripped fuse, burnt relay or smoking solenoid. Nothing was out of place. I turned the chassis shut off and on several times and tried to restart. Still nothing. No 12 volt power to anything.

I went inside the RV storage office and spoke w a non-mechanic coach service guy and he said it must be a solenoid issue. I trudged back out to get my Monaco manual to track the relays but before I did I wanted to try to start it one more time. When I opened the door the step came out and Voila the coach had healed itself. The engine started with no problem and ran for the next 20 minutes while I checked various air brake related issues.

I am a bit concerned that this engine shutdown occurred and could happen at highway speed. I know trying to track down this gremlin now that the coach is working will be challenging. I hope the engine held a shutdown code but in the meantime, until I get the coach to a service tech, Does anyone have a suggestion on what I should be looking at regarding this shut down based on the symptoms of no 12 volt anywhere in the coach?

I plan to take apart the shut off switch to clean the contacts and ck for corrosion. Is there anything downstream from the shutoff that would kill a running engine and all 12v power to the chassis?

I'm still a newby at trying my hand at electrical stuff. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:26 PM   #2
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no12v power

if it was me i would be looking for a poor battery connection or possibly a falty ground connection
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:33 AM   #3
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Do some detective work...

If you have a wiring diagram then look for common source for everything that did not work.

If engine was running alternator will supply power, so look for where alternator is connected, from there to battery likely ok.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:19 AM   #4
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this might sound a dump question - have you tested your chassis battery's voltage?
i am thinking once engine is fired up, it will not stop even though battery is cut off. low battery will not start your engine but unlike a gas engine it does not need to provide power to engine so to keep running.
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:50 AM   #5
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Mine is an older mechanical 8.3 with no electronic controls and it will shut down if I turn off the chassis battery disconnect. I guess it loses power to the fuel solenoid. Maybe your battery disconnect is going bad or has a bad connection from lack of use. You might try disconnecting the batts while idling to see if the engine quits just to see if that is possible. If so, maybe cycle the disconnect several times to exercise it and get a better electrical contact. I also like another poster's idea of checking ground cable to chassis and engine block.
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Old 11-22-2013, 09:57 AM   #6
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Bill, you might want to click the red triangle in the bottom left corner under your name and ask a Moderator to move this post to the Monaco Owners Forum. Some other Monaco owner may have experienced this and could help you.
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Old 11-22-2013, 10:49 AM   #7
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No power to fuel shutdown solenoid, the engine will shut down. Been there, done that.

No power to anything else 12v that is powered by the chassis battery sounds like the battery connection failed.

If all 12v power was lost, including that powered by the House battery, then something else is amiss.

I would first check the chassis battery connections for good clean contact and tight connections.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:52 PM   #8
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Thanks for the replies. My first question was why would the coach shut down once 12v was lost is answered by the fuel solenoid losing power.

The tougher question is why did I lose 12 v. The coach started normally. Batteries are fully charged. Good voltage off batteries to shutoff switch.

I am going to replace the shutoff switch. Ordering one today. Right now everything is working. Hard to guess what else is going on. Checked all grounds. All clean w solid contacts.

Any other ideas?
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbodywork View Post
.

The tougher question is why did I lose 12 v. The coach started normally. Batteries are fully charged. Good voltage off batteries to shutoff switch.

I am going to replace the shutoff switch. Ordering one today. Right now everything is working. Hard to guess what else is going on. Checked all grounds. All clean w solid contacts.

Any other ideas?
Checking the chassis negative ground at the chassis and battery is good. However, the positive contact at the battery could also need tightening and/or cleaning.

If vibration from the engine idling caused the connection problem it could be at either battery terminal.

If the alternator were not performing, the chassis battery should contain enough charge to power the tranny and shut down solenoid for a fairly long time. I have driven my rig several miles with no alternator.

What voltage do you read at the battery terminals when the engine is running and before you start the engine?
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:39 PM   #10
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Dean is right on, you likely have intermittent connection agrivated by viberation and or temperature.

Not likely at battery as alternator supplies power and is self-exciting, once producing energy the battery can be removed.

So if 12 was dead after engine stop and it is good now then you need to break it.

Start with locating a seperate battery charger and attach it to the battery and plug it into shore power with shore cord to mh unplugged.

Now turn EVERYTHING ON, this puts full load on the system.

Watch your lights as you turn things on, they will show a dip in voltage well.

Carefully measure voltages at connections and wiggle and tug at them, does not take much to cause it to fail.

Use wood stick to tap fuses, you get the idea.

You need to break it to observe the failure, make voltage measurements as you go while keeping eyes on the lights.

If it shut down the engine it is common to the engine supply, but the path may be long and complicated.

Do not do this with engine running since it was dead after it stopped.

Good luck and happy hunting.
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:09 PM   #11
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I would do all of the above first. Then if that doesn't work I would check the PMD power module distribution block. It is black and about four inches square. the reason I say to check this is because mine went out while driving and scared the you know what out of the DW. Mine got a little moisture in it and that's all it took. This little box controls the whole chassis power. Mine is located below the battery box. It has four wire looms that come from it.

Good luck

And by the way, the box with all the breakers and fuses is $320.00.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hometool View Post
if it was me i would be looking for a poor battery connection or possibly a falty ground connection
Quote:
Originally Posted by TQ60 View Post
Do some detective work...

If you have a wiring diagram then look for common source for everything that did not work.

If engine was running alternator will supply power, so look for where alternator is connected, from there to battery likely ok.
X2 on both of the above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbodywork View Post
Thanks for the replies. My first question was why would the coach shut down once 12v was lost is answered by the fuel solenoid losing power.
......
I am going to replace the shutoff switch. Ordering one today. Right now everything is working. Hard to guess what else is going on. Checked all grounds. All clean w solid contacts.

Any other ideas?
You don't have a single fuel shutoff solenoid as your is new enough to have a computer.
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Old 11-22-2013, 07:44 PM   #13
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yeah a look at poor battery connection or possibly a falty ground connection would help

but you know it only takes one wire to do as you are talking and that is the kill wire for the relay

your relay is set up on one of 2 ways
hot wire to keep relay on at all time taking power to do so
or its like what i have + - = on and - + = off this relay only takes power to turn on and off and pulls no amps on the on off side of things

keep that type of relay in mind when looking at the system so if you are showing ground and 12vcd + on the 2 wires going in to the relay its the type that needs power at all times to stay on if its this type look at all wiring from it back to the input

if its the type where the system has power bot shows no inputs on the 2 wires then its the type i have and would take a big err some where to make the power go off and to get that well i am 99% sure thats not whats going on


1 more thing the big fuses with the really big heavy 0.4 0.3 wires thats under the black covers pull that cuver off that if you have this type .. the nuts can be tight but the brake can be in the fuse and hard to see try to move the wire and IF you see the copper lug move with it the fuse is bad but still can show power through it

i had a hard to find one like this


hope this helps some
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Old 11-22-2013, 08:10 PM   #14
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I had a very similar problem with my old Yanmar tractor, it was running fine, starting just fine and then NOTHING. All voltage checks were done with the probes touching the battery post itself so I was really baffled. Long story short - it was corossion between the battery posts and the battery cable connections. Try disconnecting all your battery connections and clean the posts and the cable connections if you have that configuratuon. If you have top stud group 31 batteries, that may not be the issue. However, check and clean all 12 Volt battery connections.
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