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Old 08-12-2013, 02:20 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubulin View Post
Today's newmar would not touch that level of changes. I was ready to order a 14 DSDP and they wouldn't do anything to accommodate my needs (much less than what you did). Further, all they said was "no" and made no effort to suggest anything to help or accommodate me. I think they will change a few colors and maybe swap cabinets, but that is about it. My dealer was so frustrated as he lost a sale and had no options.

Very frustrating.
hmmmm ... PDR John, didn't you have a bunch of changes on your 2013?
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:09 AM   #44
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Comfort Drive makes much more difference than IFS. Dutch Star has both.

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I'd love to have IFS AND Comfort Drive, but if you had to choose, which makes a bigger difference, IFS or Comfort Drive? Or CAN we have both now with either Newmar or Entegra?
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:18 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Route 66
Comfort Drive makes much more difference than IFS. Dutch Star has both.
I have IFS and Comfort Drive on my 2012 DSDP, along with a Cummins ISL side radiator. I am very happy with the ride and handling of my coach.

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Old 08-12-2013, 08:27 AM   #46
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Been to both factories...same quality in the coaches. Built much the same way. Think Spartan is the better chassis. In the end, two year warrantee and lower price for more with Entegra. JMHO

Haven't driven the Comfort Drive, but IFS is a nice.

Can't go wrong with either coach.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:05 AM   #47
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Been to both factories...same quality in the coaches. Built much the same way. Think Spartan is the better chassis. In the end, two year warrantee and lower price for more with Entegra. JMHO

Haven't driven the Comfort Drive, but IFS is a nice.

Can't go wrong with either coach.
DSL417, I have never owned a Spartan and am anxious to see the current Spartan MM and Freightliner XC chassis side by side at Hershey next month. In your opinion, what makes the Spartan MM better than a Freightliner XC? Since you have been to the Entegra factory, do you remember how the wall aluminum joist's are connected at the top and bottom? Are they welded or screwed together? Should we decide to move to a larger floor-plan in the next year or so, we are considering staying with Newmar or moving to an Entegra or American Coach. In 2011 we where looking at Entegra's at the Hershey show, when the factory rep became very belligerent quickly ending our consideration. We did not even make it to the conversation about how an Entegra is constructed. He must have been having a bad moment, and we where lucky enough to be the next shopper with questions. DW has since tempered about the incident and is now willing to look again at Entegra.

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Old 08-12-2013, 07:02 PM   #48
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.... As I got into the driver's seat of the KingAire on display, I cracked the top of my head open on the overhead compartment. That put the purchase of a Newmar in great doubt for me. I wouldn't put up with that when flying my Beech King Air ......

Seriously? That's a pretty regular thing climbing into a new vehicle, until you learn exactly the best way to seat yourself. I've cracked my head on a few different t-props, DC-3, 727, and 747. Don't take yourself out of one of the best coaches on something as innocuous as that.
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:43 PM   #49
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DSL417, I have never owned a Spartan and am anxious to see the current Spartan MM and Freightliner XC chassis side by side at Hershey next month. In your opinion, what makes the Spartan MM better than a Freightliner XC? Since you have been to the Entegra factory, do you remember how the wall aluminum joist's are connected at the top and bottom? Are they welded or screwed together? Should we decide to move to a larger floor-plan in the next year or so, we are considering staying with Newmar or moving to an Entegra or American Coach. In 2011 we where looking at Entegra's at the Hershey show, when the factory rep became very belligerent quickly ending our consideration. We did not even make it to the conversation about how an Entegra is constructed. He must have been having a bad moment, and we where lucky enough to be the next shopper with questions. DW has since tempered about the incident and is now willing to look again at Entegra.

Mike
Visited both factories. looked for what Cruzer had commented on concerning construction and hung wall approach. Found the construction approach to be very similar, particularly in wall construction and connection to the floors and ceilings. As far as the walls themselves, believe I saw a few more 2X4" size studs in the Entegra walls as opposed to all wall studs in the Newmar being what looked to be 1 1/4" square. Insulation techniques looked the same. Principle difference is Newmar factory line takes them down the line as they are ordered (so you may have a Mountain Aire followed by a DS, followed by a King Aire, followed by a Ventana). This surprised me as that combined with customization would increase challenges for line workers as it breaks from repetition and requires more knowledge (I saw someone post though that Newmar might be decreasing the customization...I don't know).

In the end, construction-wise, the coach lines seem comparable and you can't go wrong with either...IMHO.

As far as Spartan chassis...JMHO, after reading a number of reviews as well as comments on various parts of this forum. Certainly costs more, and I have friends with Newmar coaches who can't understand, other than cutting costs, why Newmar is moving to Freightliner. Their words...not mine. I am very impressed with Spartan customer service. I have been to their factory, and I was very impressed with the experience and knowledge, combined with work approach on that factory floor.

Again, All JMHO.

I'm really surprised concerning the experience you had with an Entegra factory rep at the Hershey show. I was there last year and found all at the Entegra (and the Newmar display) accommodating in every way. We went back and forth for almost 4 hours during the process of making a decision on what we were going to do. I don't recall a factory rep there on the Saturday we visited. Tadd Jenkins, Ted Cook, and Joyce were at Tampa, and IMO there are no better.

In the end it came down to warrantee and dollars. We felt we got more for the dollar with Entegra. And pls, that is not a statement WRT quality. Both are great coaches, and Newmar offers more floor plans.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:39 PM   #50
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[QUOTE=hdgoldie;1235847]We looked at Newmar, and at American, and at the Winnebago Tour before buying the Entegra. We liked the floorplan, closet space, stacked washer dryer, Spartan Chassis, Dinette (that was big for us, we have found them so much more comfortable for us thaN a separate table and chairs.QUOTE]

Yep, that's a biggy for me as well. I love a booth dinette set up. Why do you have a 43' RV with kids, grandkids, friends, etc. and a dining table with two rickity stick chairs?
If it's just you and one other with no friends, then I guess it's practical, but don't ever invite anybody over to eat or play cards.
Go figure.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:49 PM   #51
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Today's newmar would not touch that level of changes. I was ready to order a 14 DSDP and they wouldn't do anything to accommodate my needs (much less than what you did). Further, all they said was "no" and made no effort to suggest anything to help or accommodate me. I think they will change a few colors and maybe swap cabinets, but that is about it. My dealer was so frustrated as he lost a sale and had no options.

Very frustrating.
Very strange indeed!
What changes were you asking for? From looking at the new ones and the brochure it doesn't seem like there is much that could be changed or added.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:43 PM   #52
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Nubulin you need to read the Hoot's threads in this QT's # 3 post they got just about every change they wanted.
Maybe its your dealer that's the problem.

As for construction check this out.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:11 AM   #53
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I doubt that the Newmar fans will ever convince the Entegra fans or vice-versa. To each his own. We liked the fact that with Entegra pretty much everything was included. Our coach only had two options. Others like to pick and choose from the multitude of options offered by Newmar. IMHO, the less variation in an assembly line, the more likely the quality will be consistent-hopefully for the better. Henry Ford revolutionized the auto industry this way.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:53 AM   #54
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Do newmars have seamless windows and slides?
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:06 AM   #55
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What did u finally decide? I agree with most they are both beautiful coaches.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:31 AM   #56
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..... IMHO, the less variation in an assembly line, the more likely the quality will be consistent.... .
Disagree. An assembly line enhances the possibility of quality by standardizing procedures. But the quality comes from the attitude and dedication of the people doing the work, and this is exactly why comparing Newmar and Entegra is like comparing apples and brake drums.

Newmar has a 50 year corporate culture of high-end quality undergirding all of its design, manufacturing, and marketing. Jayco has a 50 year corporate culture of middle-class trailers. They've tried luxury coaches once before, and either couldn't or wouldn't make the grade.

They've hired some Newmar folks, and are copying a lot of Newmar's best practices. This can only be good. They're making some beautiful coaches, but it will be 2025 or later before a judgment can be made as to whether the 2010 Entegra line is as reliable as the Newmar line against which it competes. I also find it disappointing that even their choice of a name is a subliminal marketing ploy. Why didn't they just call the company "Integrity", and skip the high-school games?

I wish them luck, I really do, because legitimate competition can only benefit the industry. But at this point there's no way to put the two companies on a par. IMHO.
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