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Old 07-06-2012, 03:55 PM   #1
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Entegra vs Newmar Dutch Star?

I'm not quite sure how or when, but somehow in my search for the perfect RV I got the impression that Newmars were sub-standard with a bunch of problems, so I had not even looked at them. Must have read a rant somewhere.

Of all the rest Entegra seems to be a clear leader in features and value. Then someone here purchased a Dutch Star, and in their enthusiasm I went to Newmar and looked.

I have to say, I'm impressed! Features that I thought exclusive to Entegra at that price level, like the flush slides, indicating better build quality, are standard at Newmar as well. And they offer the 450 ISL Cummins on the Dutch Star, which other than those few leftovers, Entegra doesn't offer til you bump up to the Anthem for the extra $100K. DS offers 40' units, which Entegra eliminated, and I was amazed to find out Newmar offers a tag axle even on the 40' units!

I know there are many enthusiasts for the Entegra, but I'm finding just as many in the Newmar camp.

So what's the buzz? Why is Entegra better than Dutch Star? Or why is Dutch Star better than Entegra? Or are they equal and it is just preference?

This should be a good conversation starter! LOL! Let's hear from all of you, good or bad ...

Kathryn
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:03 PM   #2
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Newmar has a good line of coaches, and are well built. DS and Entegra are very similar in quality. Search some on Travel Supreme to validate this, but I think I recall that Travel Supreme was founded by a gang from Newmar. Buy the rig that best fits your personal needs, both are fine units from good companies.
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Old 07-06-2012, 05:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn View Post
I'm not quite sure how or when, but somehow in my search for the perfect RV I got the impression that Newmars were sub-standard with a bunch of problems, so I had not even looked at them. Must have read a rant somewhere.

Of all the rest Entegra seems to be a clear leader in features and value. Then someone here purchased a Dutch Star, and in their enthusiasm I went to Newmar and looked.

I have to say, I'm impressed! Features that I thought exclusive to Entegra at that price level, like the flush slides, indicating better build quality, are standard at Newmar as well. And they offer the 450 ISL Cummins on the Dutch Star, which other than those few leftovers, Entegra doesn't offer til you bump up to the Anthem for the extra $100K. DS offers 40' units, which Entegra eliminated, and I was amazed to find out Newmar offers a tag axle even on the 40' units!

I know there are many enthusiasts for the Entegra, but I'm finding just as many in the Newmar camp.

So what's the buzz? Why is Entegra better than Dutch Star? Or why is Dutch Star better than Entegra? Or are they equal and it is just preference?

This should be a good conversation starter! LOL! Let's hear from all of you, good or bad ...

Kathryn
Some employees of Newmar went to Entegra and a lot of Newmars technology and quality has been copied by Entegra now. There was a thread a few days ago about Entegra upgrades. A lot of what they said Entegra was doing now came right out of the Newmar factory like air glides during the RV build and hung wall construction. Got an Entegra salesman tongue tied at the Phoenix Good Sam rally when he claimed that Entegra was the only manufacturer using the hung wall construction. Told him he forgot about Newmar, he turned and walked away.
After having two Newmars we're sold on them, not saying Entegra isn't as good but a lot of what they have in them is copied.
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:39 PM   #4
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Love our Dutch Star, very good quality and have had very few problems and they were small.

We had a Newmar Kountry Star 5th wheel and beat it to death over some bad roads and put a lot of miles on it. That thing was tough as nails, thats why when we went looking for a motorhome we went with Newmar.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:27 PM   #5
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Kathryn,

If you had posted this in the either the Jayco (Entegra) or Newmar sections you may have a better response. That said you may start a skirmish between rabid fans of each.

As a soon to be Entegra owner in California where neither brand has a presence, I didn't get the opportunity to cross compare, but I have friends who have Newmar and its a fine coach. For me it was the value and all the small things that made a difference:

1. Even the Aspire comes with the 450HP MM chassis from spartan.
2. Frameless windows (This was actually what got me looking at Entegra)
3. Multiplex lighting
4. Aquahot with heated tile
5. Samsung LED screens

There are many other much smaller items that helped drive my decision, but even if you call the build quality a tie or close enough, Entegra sells for about $25-$50K cheaper after adding normal options and comes with a a 2 year warranty. Same goes for American Coach, although I think both Newmar and Entegra have a slightly better build quality than American from what I have seen.

One other thing to keep in mind, when you go to resell, options have very little resale value, so the fact that you put $50K+ options on a Newmar and maybe $5K on an Entegra means that you should hold your value much better.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:38 PM   #6
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Don't forget the fiberglass roof standard on Entegra and is NOT on Newmar for 2013 until you get to the Essex. Also, freight liner vs Spartan, only a few of the reasons we picked Entegra. BUT, you are fortunate, this is a win win for you, both great coaches. Floor plan and inside storage capacity Newmar the likely winner. Fit, finish, subfloor, chassis and many details Entegra wins. Compare closely, shop prices, warranty and pick what is best for you, you will be a winner if these are your only choices. All just my opinion and experiences.
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:49 PM   #7
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Newmar has been a family owned RV manufactuer for over 40 years, and USED to offer a three year bumper-to-bumper warranty. They invented the room slide-out, and offer everything from an entry-level gasser to the King Aire, which is just short of a million bucks. Newmar builds "most" of their current offerings on FCCC, and uses Spartan under ONLY the two top-of-the-line models. Generally speaking, the higher level ammenities = more things to go wrong....our 2003 KSCA gasser was almost trouble free for almost 100,000 miles.

Entegra is a relatively new division of Jayco which was started in the facility Jayco bought when TS went belly up. They have since re-located Entegra to much better facilities. Jayco tried building class A coaches several years ago, but gave up in favor of staying in the trailer business. Entegra is certainly building very fine coaches, and using Spartan chassis exclusively. They are also significantly raising the bar in terms of customer satisfaction, and offer a 2 year warranty on the coach, plus the Spartan warranty. Their LONG waiting time to get any Entegra model is almost unprecedented for assembly line products. Obviously they are doing a lot of things very well, and you can bet that both Newmar & Tiffin are "shocked" to see the rapid sucess of this "up start" competitor.

I believe Entegra's sucess will force Newmar and Tiffin to build "better" coaches than they have each been doing recently-just my opinion. Ed
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:33 PM   #8
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Amen to that, competition improves the brands!
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:45 PM   #9
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We looked at Newmar, and at American, and at the Winnebago Tour before buying the Entegra. We liked the floorplan, closet space, stacked washer dryer, Spartan Chassis, Dinette (that was big for us, we have found them so much more comfortable for us that a separate table and chairs. Colors, Materials, Finishes - and a two year warranty made the final decision. I think they are have benefits and they all have drawbacks. For us, Entegra gave us most of the items on my wish list. There are a few areas where we will compromise, but they are few and easy to accept. Love the high quality finishes in the Entegra. Felt much more open and friendly for guests or just our family. Basement bays that open and close easily and solidly. Good storage thoughout While waiting for ours to arrive, we have visited many others and know what we our priorities are and how our much money we can afford. With Entegra pricing we are getting the coach that we love at a price we can afford. Can't ask for much more that that. The test is getting companies willing to send you pictures of your coach as it's being build, when it comes back from paid, or when it arrives a the dealership.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:48 PM   #10
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Ask Entegra to make custom changes, then ask Newmar for the same thing. On our DSDP we had walls and pocket doors removed, different bath vanity, different design countertops, upgrade to Advantium micro/convection, storage bay refer/freezer and a bunch of other stuff. Something to the tune of $35,000 in changes/options making it the most heavily optioned 2002 DSDP built.
Bet Entegra will NOT remove walls and doors or substitute different vanity designs. Even our 2000 DSDP had special cabinet designs.

However, the competition will improve both brands. Already factory procedures that Newmar has had for years are being incorporated into the Entegra line.
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Kathryn,

If you had posted this in the either the Jayco (Entegra) or Newmar sections you may have a better response. That said you may start a skirmish between rabid fans of each.

As a soon to be Entegra owner in California where neither brand has a presence, I didn't get the opportunity to cross compare, but I have friends who have Newmar and its a fine coach. For me it was the value and all the small things that made a difference:

1. Even the Aspire comes with the 450HP MM chassis from spartan.
2. Frameless windows (This was actually what got me looking at Entegra)
3. Multiplex lighting
4. Aquahot with heated tile
5. Samsung LED screens

There are many other much smaller items that helped drive my decision, but even if you call the build quality a tie or close enough, Entegra sells for about $25-$50K cheaper after adding normal options and comes with a a 2 year warranty. Same goes for American Coach, although I think both Newmar and Entegra have a slightly better build quality than American from what I have seen.

One other thing to keep in mind, when you go to resell, options have very little resale value, so the fact that you put $50K+ options on a Newmar and maybe $5K on an Entegra means that you should hold your value much better.
LOL! It's both sides I want to hear!

On your list, Aspire does NOT offer the 450 on the Aspire. They had about 20 chassis left over from a line change that had the IFS and the 450 and they used them on Aspires - those are gone now unless you find a dealer with a stock model that has not sold.

If I recall, Newmar INVENTED frameless windows, (as well as slides!) and they are standard on the Dutch Star. They have multiplex lighting, as well as Aquahot and heated tile. Don't know about Samsung.

DS starts at $310K, Aspire starts at $350K, even with the whole list of options DS comes in well below. The fiberglass roof upgrade is only $2K. And the cost difference on the bigger Cummins 450ISL is about $20K!

Only significant difference I have found is Aspire uses Spartan chassis, while Newmar uses a beefed up top of the line Freightliner with side radiator, and they were using the stronger hung wall system long before Entegra was started and began using it.

I guess the reason I am a little chafed is because so much of what is said and promoted about Entegra was presented as exclusive to Entegra in this price range, like the flush slides and hung walls and Aquahot. Then I discover Newmar has offered them all for years, actually INVENTED the flush slide, and offers every single feature and option that Entega offers, at a significantly lower price, other than the slight difference between the Spartan and the custom Freightliner.

Plus, I feel like there is a significant market out there at that price level (like ME!) who might want a unit a little less than 43' long, and I am impressed that while Entegrra cut their line, Newmar offers two great floorplans at 38' and two 40', with the added benefit of a tag axle on the 40' units and the IFS 450 standard!

And finally, even with the large number of units they move through their lines, Newmar is willing to go the extra mile to accomodate all the little (and big!) changes owners want for their "perfect" motorhome.

Maybe I'm missing something, but gotta say I'm leaning on the Newmar side of the line ...

Kathryn
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:15 AM   #12
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Choices

Both are great manufactures. I would suggest visiting there plants and observing the materials and methods used to fabricate each unit. what confirmed my decision was our visit.We now have a coach built with square tube not perferated channel. An Entegra.
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:49 AM   #13
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My Aspire has a 450 ISL engine and does not have IFS. To my knowledge ALL 2012 Aspires come with the 450 Cummins. In addition Entegra is coming back with new designs in the 40 foot range - no doubt with improvements that we as owners of a 40DRQ will be envious about. I don't recall ever seeing a claim by Entegra that they have exclusives to various features. With all due respect there's no reason to be "chafed" about anything with your decision regarding Entegra. No one there has ever deceived me or told me something that was not true. If you read forums all the time you will see and hear things that are not true or at the very least "enhanced" beyond realilty.

BOTH are well-built coaches that try to stay at the top of their game in a tough economy. Most owners of both Entegra and Newmar will say they are happy with their decision. As said already, go to the factories and look at the floor plans. Also read Cruzer's review of the Entegra production line of you can't make it to the factory. There are no "wrong" decisions here - only which one is right for YOU.
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Old 07-08-2012, 07:09 AM   #14
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Same boat

Kathryn, We're in the same boat, not sure on an Aspire or a Dutch Star. Would love to have an Anthem or a Mountain Aire, but don't see that happening. The great thing about these forums is that you get real world opinions, not the salesman's view. One issue with Entegra is that they are changing constantly, always improving, but sometimes cause the list of standards to be questioned. RV Direct did a good video on the Aspire, http://www.orlandorvdirect.com/index...9/Orlando%20RV check it out. It shows a lot of the features of the Apsire and explains them. They also have a video on the Anthem on their Orlando web site. As everyone else has said, I don't think you can go wrong with either.
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