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Old 02-18-2013, 12:20 PM   #29
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Funny how the Exhaust Brake purists think coasting means screaming down hill. I have seen two common sense postings to on this subject here so far. It does not mean I put the rig in neutral and fly down hills like a roller coaster. I have over 30 years operating diesel vehicles from basic mechanical non fly by wire systems to highly sophisticated Fire trucks with exhaust braking. I also have extensive training in emergency vehicle operations. Energy management is part of operating any vehicle. Depleting energy by letting the exhaust brake engage whenever I come off the gas is not efficient. IMHO

Everybody has a different way of doing things. Having a bunch of know it all's on here using foul language and refusing to accept that different people have different levels of training and doing things. Just because they do something different than you do is no reason to castigate someone for being different. Actually I find it quite rude. I will stand on my experience and training. After 30 years of operating large diesel vehicles I haven't broke one yet.

Thank you Mr. Lee for your take on this. You explained it very well. By the way, I like how you enjoy RVing and have the resources to do so. :thumbs:
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:38 PM   #30
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This thread has a lot of good information going back and forth. I just want to remind everyone of this ( one of our most important ) rules.
" Please think before you post and keep your comments limited to the topic at hand; above all be nice. We encourage everyone to participate in and enjoy the Community while at the same time adhering to these rules:"

It's what makes this a great forum.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:35 PM   #31
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:56 PM   #32
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I have to agree with the guys that DON'T think leaving the exhaust brake on ALL the time is a good idea... I'm no expert, but common sense tells me that if I'm only gassing and braking, I have to be burning more fuel than if I spend some time "coasting"... For you purists... The definition of coasting meaning still in gear and without braking... Why would you develop a technique to "fool" the exhaust brake by feathering the gas pedal? Seems counter productive. I turn the exhaust brake on when I am in an area of long hills... Like sections of 81... If anyone knows the road.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phinneyj View Post
Funny how the Exhaust Brake purists think coasting means screaming down hill. I have seen two common sense postings to on this subject here so far. It does not mean I put the rig in neutral and fly down hills like a roller coaster. I have over 30 years operating diesel vehicles from basic mechanical non fly by wire systems to highly sophisticated Fire trucks with exhaust braking. I also have extensive training in emergency vehicle operations. Energy management is part of operating any vehicle. Depleting energy by letting the exhaust brake engage whenever I come off the gas is not efficient. IMHO

Everybody has a different way of doing things. Having a bunch of know it all's on here using foul language and refusing to accept that different people have different levels of training and doing things. Just because they do something different than you do is no reason to castigate someone for being different. Actually I find it quite rude. I will stand on my experience and training. After 30 years of operating large diesel vehicles I haven't broke one yet.

Thank you Mr. Lee for your take on this. You explained it very well. By the way, I like how you enjoy RVing and have the resources to do so. :thumbs:
Jeff, I'm really sorry that you feel someone was rude or used foul language. I looked back over the posts and don't seem to see that. This forum is known for folks being friendly and respectful to others and we certainly don't want to spoil that reputation. Do you think you may have misunderstood their intent?
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:59 PM   #34
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:37 PM   #35
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There are a couple ways to manage the exhaust brake so that it does not come on while coasting. One is to 'feather' the throttle, which several have posted on. Another is to install the Brake Switch, which will do this for you, without applying any pressure to the throttle to keep the exhaust brake from coming on. A third is to have your engine manufacturer program the exhaust brake to 'Latch' mode, which does not enable the exhaust brake unless the brake petal is pressed (with the cruise switch 'on' but not enabled; if the cruise switch is turned 'off', the exhaust brake will engage).

The exhaust brake when engaged does not use any fuel. It does, of course, slow the coach, so inevitably may use more fuel to maintain momentum.

I am one of those who has the exhaust brake master switch 'on' all the time, but I have had it programmed to the 'Latch' mode. Therefore I can coast without having to maintain any feathering pressure on the throttle. I manage the exhaust brake on/off with the cruise switch or by tapping the brake petal. I love how I have mine programmed, as I find it easy to manage, the exhaust brake is there when I need it, and it's not there when I don't want or need it. Best of both worlds.

PS I have also reprogrammed the Allison to downshift to '4' vs '2' when the exhaust brake engages, much less agressive. And in both cases (CAT and Allison) they did not charge me to do the programming, as it only took about 5 minutes each. While I was at it, I had the cruise programming changed to automatically engage the exhaust brake when speed reached over 5mph vs the set cruise speed. Keeps the coach from racing away down a hill, and won't even downshift unless it really picks up speed.

I only override these conditions manually when I'm faced with coming down a steep grade, where I manually engage the exhaust brake and downshift the transmission early to keep the speed down. My backup is always the service brakes.

The exhaust brake will not stress the transmission nor the engine. And this process minimizes wear and tear on the service brakes. Best of both worlds.

I find the coach extremely driveable this way.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:47 PM   #36
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Jeff, I'm really sorry that you feel someone was rude or used foul language. I looked back over the posts and don't seem to see that. This forum is known for folks being friendly and respectful to others and we certainly don't want to spoil that reputation. Do you think you may have misunderstood their intent?
Begin Rant

MSHappyCampers, Rude to me is when someone calls BS. (Spelled Out) when expressing their opinion of mine. That particular comment was edited out and replaced with "bunk" later on. Another poster felt that the comment by that poster was not over the top. I disagree. Everybody has opinions, express your opinion and then move on. If you disagree then just say you disagree, explain why and post any relevant information to support your opinion. That is how we learn. You don't need to tell someone that their opinion is Bull $#*t. It is disrespectful and it chills the free exchange of ideas.

Since I bought my MH I have discovered this forum and its many wonderful members. I have learned a great deal here and expect to learn more. I have already had perceptions and misconceptions changed. I enjoy this method of interaction and learning. I don't enjoy disrespectful communication. I have been a member of forums that have disintegrated into an uncomfortable place for people to interact with other like minded people. Eventually those forums died a slow death as it drives away people that like to communicate in a respectful and civil manner. I don't see that happening here as it seems to me that most of the people here are respectful. I just tend to be a little less tolerant of such behavior. Alright, did not mean to get off topic.

Rant over.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:04 PM   #37
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Yes Pusherman - Latch is the word I was looking for. If I could get around to getting my system changed to latch mode AND the default changed to 4 instead of 2 then i would be a lot happier. Even happier if I could get around to shifting the retard switch from the front dash tucked behind the steering wheel where I have to reach and look to operate it, to next to the transmission pad where the hand falls naturally. Only reason I haven't done it is I pulled it out expecting to find 2 wires on a simple switch, but there seemed to be about 10 wires so I didn't bother.

But even then, with all those enhancements it would likely stay off most of the time except when I needed it.

Have to admire some of the ergonomic design that goes into vehicles. The retarder switch is one such, but the other one I find strange is the transmission console. To go forward, I have to press the rear button and to go backwards I have to press the front button. Must be a logical reason, but I can't think of one.

-------------
As for the cut and thrust of normal debate, it is rare that there is a need to attack the player rather than the ball, but even if that time comes, it doesn't take a lot of effort to couch your opinion in terms that aren't quite as grating to the ego as others. Similarly, when attacking the ball - or rather playing the ball - it is always quite easy to tear an argument to pieces in a reasonably polite way with one possible exception.

When a poster persists in making posts that advocate illegal and/or dangerous practices and makes those posts in a way that an uninformed reader would assume are coming from an expert in the field, all gloves are off.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:17 PM   #38
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Pusherman, I have the ISC CM850 Cummins with Allison 3000. I know the CAT can be reprogrammed to "Latch" mode. Can the Cummins be programmed the same or similar?
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:30 PM   #39
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Exhaust brake is absolutely invaluable on steep downhill grades, but a pain in the neck in just about any other situation.

Normal driving, if I lift my foot it means I want to coast a bit or just reduce my speed a little, NOT have the transmission downshift to second and the exhaust brake to deploy. Same in the city - want to pull up at the lights and just want to do it gently by lifting the foot and braking gently, not by having the transmission jerk down a few gears and make a big fuss for no benefit.

If I got around to getting the programming changed to the coast option (or whatever the correct term is) rather than the default 2nd, that might be different, but until then, my engine brake switch is normally in the off position.
The transmission is programmed to "preselect" (Allisons term) a lower gear, usually 2nd but it can also be changed to preselect any gear. All the preselect does is tell the transmission to agressively downshift to the gear selected as quickly as possible without harming the engine or trans. On our 2000 DSDP I had it changed to preselect 4th gear and forever after wished I hadn't done it!
The higher the rpm the more effective the braking BTW.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:41 PM   #40
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I have to agree with the guys that DON'T think leaving the exhaust brake on ALL the time is a good idea... I'm no expert, but common sense tells me that if I'm only gassing and braking, I have to be burning more fuel than if I spend some time "coasting"... For you purists... The definition of coasting meaning still in gear and without braking... Why would you develop a technique to "fool" the exhaust brake by feathering the gas pedal? Seems counter productive. I turn the exhaust brake on when I am in an area of long hills... Like sections of 81... If anyone knows the road.
I have to respectfully disagree with your first statment about leaving the EB on most of the time. Pusherman discribed feathering much better then I did so will leave it at that. I agree 100% with your discription of coasting. My EB has no connection with the computor or brake light. It is just the EB. I don't try to fool the EB, I just tell it when I want it on and when I want it off. There are times when I can go miles (sometimes hours) without using the service brakes using the technique of feathering. Because of this ability I expect to get 150/200K on my brake lining. I have over 90k on the PU with almost 50% lining left.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:34 PM   #41
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Pusherman, I have the ISC CM850 Cummins with Allison 3000. I know the CAT can be reprogrammed to "Latch" mode. Can the Cummins be programmed the same or similar?
Jeff, I believe so, but call Cummins to be sure.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:47 PM   #42
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I have to reply to this post...I only use my exhaust brake when I am descending steep hills or when I am in stop & go traffic, like going through a city and off of the interstate. The constant on & off of the brake pedal is lessened quite a bit by the exhaust brake, which in the long run, saves me mucho dinero when it comes to replacing brakes. Keeping the exhaust brake on always just seems like asking for problems somewhere else. MY advice is, ask a long haul trucker what he does...
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