Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class A Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-08-2018, 01:59 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
NCC-1701A's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,695
Experts at Shops that Can't Fix the Issues

In the thread on Buying Older Motorhomes...Success or Horror Stories, some commented on taking their motorhome to shops that couldn't fix the problems, yet they found the problems themselves.

I didn't want to hijack that great thread, so thought I'd open a new one to hear about experiences taking your RV to a shop with an expert charging you lots of money for getting nothing done, then you found the info or fix yourself.

I have two such events to relate.

The first was on my brand spankin' new Newmar with the Onan 5500 Generator. It would run for a while, then start surging and quit. It didn't do it all the time and we know that intermittent issues can be hard to find. I took it to a Newmar recommended facility local to me who spent hours on it (so they say) and found nothing. Of course, I continued to have the issue. I talked to them and they said to bring it back so they could watch it run a while again. I did so and the tech and I were watching it run when the owner's wife came out, chewed him out right in front of me for standing around, and when he said he was trying to diagnose the generator issue, she told him that I could do that, he had other things to do. Literally, as soon as they walked away, it started surging and quit! Obviously, I left that place and never returned. I called Newmar and told them to not pay any bill they got for warranty work based on what that outfit did to me. I gave a call to Onan, described the issue, and in about one second the guy said "Oh yeah...we had a batch of bad fuel pumps that don't work properly when they get hot. Let's make an appointment for you (Onan in Minneapolis is only 100 miles from me. I made a very early morning appointment and stayed overnight at their facility, which was nicer than some campgrounds I've been in. They took it in first thing in the AM and in less than an hour it was back out...all under warranty. Never a problem thereafter.

Do these supposed experts at shops EVER bother to call the real experts to see if it's a known issue? Of course, that would cut into revenues if they could actually know what they are doing and fix it quickly.

On my current coach, a 2007 Winnebago Journey on a Freightliner XC chassis, my dash gauges started intermittently bouncing around. Since I still had normal brakes, for instance, I knew that it was a gauge issue and not a real issue. Or the fact that temperature doesn't bounce around. My son-in-law used his testers to verify that at the front and rear ports for the computers, all the readings were normal. I took the coach to a nearby Freightliner OASIS facility. Now these guys are supposed to be Motorhome saavy and I was told that they'd have their best electrical guy on it. In total, he spent 4 1/2 hours checking lines end to end, checking connections, etc. $800 please...for nothing. I sent an email to FCCC RV in the evening and by 7AM the next morning had a reply that if I had white LIN jumpers, replace them with the new version. It was a well known issue for years and a TSB was even issued. My son-in-law got me the jumpers for a whopping $72 and it took 20 minutes of my time to swap them out, including pulling the dash cover and replacing it...issue solved. Again...do these so-called experts EVER call the real experts?

I can understand if it's an easily diagnosable issue, but when it's something intermittent that is generally harder to find, one would think the FIRST thing they would do is call the experts at the manufacturer to see if this issue has been reported and solved before.

I assume that my experiences were not uncommon, but would like to hear if that's the case. I've certainly learned to not jump to a repair shop first thing. Now that I've found this forum...this would be one of the FIRST places I'd check, along with the OEM. The experience of the people here is AWESOME!
__________________
"Second star to the right and straight on 'til morning"
NCC-1701A is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-08-2018, 03:46 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
EZRider800's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ringgold, GA.
Posts: 384
Unfortunately this is the case at auto and truck dealerships as well. Just went to a dealership with my Ram 1500. Air bag light was on. I knew there was a recall for the air bag so we took it in. My wife sat there all day. At 5PM they brought her the keys and said the recall was complete but the air bag light was still on. They said if you want us to diagnose what the problem is make an appointment and it will be $109.00.

How stupid do they think we are? The first thing they did when doing the recall was to hook the diagnostic computer up to it!!! They could have checked the codes THEN. Now they want me to pay $109 for them to read the codes?? My only revenge is to get on Google and leave VERY BAD feedback about the dealer everywhere I can. AND I DID!!

Full disclosure.... I have spent the last 25 years selling commercial trucks and even spent a year as the Service Director at a heavy truck dealership so I know what they CAN and CAN'T do. I even worked for this same Ram dealer for 3 years when it was first opened. I STILL got crappy service.
__________________
Curtis "EZ" Smith
40' 2006 Holiday Rambler Ambassador
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk Hemi Toad
EZRider800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 04:30 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Tha_Rooster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 8,638
If you haven’t had this problem then you never had anything fixed.
__________________
2007 Fleetwood Revolution LE 40V
Tha_Rooster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 04:39 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
CountryB's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 5,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC-1701A View Post

Do these supposed experts at shops EVER bother to call the real experts to see if it's a known issue? Of course, that would cut into revenues if they could actually know what they are doing and fix it quickly.
Some manufacturers don't want to help the local shops - after all the local shop is taking away their business. Unless the local shop is a big customer and buys a lot of parts from them. I can understand that, you take vehicle to cheap shop and then cheap shop calls manufacture and says "want should I check/do?"

Manufacturers sometimes have "data agreements" where local shop subscribes and then has access to the TSBs (technical service bulletins) and other such info. But it costs. For example if you take your Cummins engine into a local shop for repair - ask if the have subscription/access to "Cummins Insite" or for Caterpillar "CAT ET", Etc.

Lastly, ever shop has their "good" mechanics and their "not so good ones". The good ones are usually on the higher paying - more technical jobs, and the others are doing the oil changes and less technical work (tire changes, etc). The not so good guy costs less, so the business owner would rather use him to work your problem. Don't bother asking the oil change guy a technical question (oh, he'll give you answer ....).

End of rant.
__________________
Mike --- 2005 Beaver Patriot Thunder CAT C13 525HP --Links below to my OneDrive docs---
*SMC, Beaver, Monaco History, Problems https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbToxXYREK9YdBP08Jn
*Monaco Wiring Diagrams https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbTm0WTuuNqpn9a8hCh
CountryB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 04:45 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Arizona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 599
I’m always disappointed with services I’ve paid for. I’m not real picky and try to buy to most common equipment, but I can always count on the same thing. A cock of the head and those words. I’ve never seen this happen before! I’ve been forced to learn how to fix most things. I will try myself or buy new parts before I will consider taking something in for service. Warranty, yeah it’s just more paper for the bathroom.
__________________
Winnebago adventurer 37g, 18 F-150
Full time since 2000
Arizona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 08:24 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
ThePowells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Zebulon, NC
Posts: 5,208
It's generational. The techs now rely solely on computer diagnostics and have very limited troubleshooting skills.
__________________
Kelly and Jerry Powell with Halo (Lethal White Aussie), Nash the Rat Terrorist, and now Reid, the "Brindle we have no idea puppy"
2020 Grand Design Solitude 390RK-R
ThePowells is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 08:33 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePowells View Post
It's generational. The techs now rely solely on computer diagnostics and have very limited troubleshooting skills.

You ain't lying. Modern 'techs' are part swappers, diagnostic technicians are all gone....

Them:

"Well we found one of your sensor leads was only getting 5 volts, computer is probably bad"

Me:

"That 'sensor' has two inputs, one 12v for motor control, and another 5v for ECM info".

Them:
Houdoxi71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 08:51 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,055
When we were young they gave us the schematics and a manual and often training classes so we could learn the system. That way we could figure out what happened and why. By the time I retired it was call the "factory" who was often some droid reading a script in a country where English was not the first language. Manufacturers did not want us to have either the schematics or access to their code base so we could really diagnose the problem.

FWIW that is one of the basic reasons why I have a low regard for the bus controlled electronic systems in current high end coaches. In 10 years the MH will be fine but if the lights fail you won't get support to fix them. The electronics will be obsolete thus not supported.
nothermark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 09:45 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
ThePowells's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Zebulon, NC
Posts: 5,208
Well, at least Geordi LaForge has job security.
__________________
Kelly and Jerry Powell with Halo (Lethal White Aussie), Nash the Rat Terrorist, and now Reid, the "Brindle we have no idea puppy"
2020 Grand Design Solitude 390RK-R
ThePowells is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 10:23 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mariposa, CA
Posts: 3,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houdoxi71 View Post
Modern 'techs' are part swappers, diagnostic technicians are all gone....
About 20 years ago I worked in medical electronics and "swapping" (ie, board swapping) was very much the thing to do. Troubleshooting down to the component level required an engineer, not a tech, so it became way too expensive to do.

Jump ahead in time to this week . . . my 6-year-old AC was acting up. When I described the symptoms to a local tech, he said that they just replace the entire unit. No troubleshooting. Yikes!

That's the way of it guys. I don't attribute it to laziness or stupidity, it's just that things are way more complicated since the advent of computers. Just compare a 60's car engine compartment with one in a modern car.

Here's my strategy: learn as much as I can. Carry a spare, if possible, for swap outs (like today).
__________________
2003 - 2010: 2004 35' National RV Sea Breeze LX 8341
2010 - 2021: 2001 41' Newmar Mountain Aire 4095
2021 - ???? : 2001 31' National RV Sea View 8311
TechWriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 10:37 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
FIRE UP's Avatar


 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 9,867
Well,
Not this reporting is true. My son, who's now a BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) agent for the state of CA, worked at two different southern CA dealerships and, in both establishments, if he or, any fellow techs ran into issues that could not be solved while they were analyzing a problem, they got right online/phone with factory technicians that were schooled in deep problem solving.
And this thing about the manufacturers NOT WANTING to help, well, not exactly true. The techs my son came in contact WERE directly connected to the factories and, were more than willing to help. WHY you may ask? It's because the want RETURN and SATISFIED customers. And, it gave the factory insight as to problems they themselves had not encountered or thought of. He worked for both a GM and Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep dealership and, each and every time they called the factory hotline for help, they got answers.

Now, motorhomes, that's a whole 'nother animal. There are a minimum of two factors in building a motorhome. The chassis builder and the coach builder. And many times, the two don't play well together. And when problems crop up, it sometimes is not easy to get either one to help because, neither one may know how the OTHER SIDE tide into their side of the equation. The chassis builder MAY be of help if there's problems concerning their part of the build. And, conversely, the coach builder MAY be able to help if, IF, the problem lies with their side. But if things are intermingled, well, to get to the root of a problem, could be tough.

I've ran into it myself. It was not fun but, we (my son and I) finally figured out the issue. Anyway, there are some incompetent techs/shops/service centers (sometimes Camping World comes to mind) out there for sure. But, not all of them.
Scott
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '20 Honda NC750X DCT
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Heidi character, (mini Schnauzer)!
FIRE UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 11:31 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Superburban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: GrandJunction, Co
Posts: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by nothermark View Post

FWIW that is one of the basic reasons why I have a low regard for the bus controlled electronic systems in current high end coaches. In 10 years the MH will be fine but if the lights fail you won't get support to fix them. The electronics will be obsolete thus not supported.
Not just motor homes. Glance under the hood of a new car or truck. It takes a lot of extra parts to have a 2.7L engine power a full size crewcab truck, and tow 5000lbs behind it. Lot of the sensors, actuators, and what not, are not carried through year to year, so there will not be much aftermarket support down the road.


I can get more parts for my 77 Dodge pickup, from the parts store, then I can for my 2010 Dodge minivan. And they are cheaper, a caliper for the truck is around $30, the minivan, is approx $80.
__________________
84 Country Coach Cummins Cruiser, 6BTA5.9, GV Overdrive, Exhaust brake.
Superburban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2018, 05:59 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 305
I have had the same experience with parts people. I needed an oil filter for my 7500 Onan. They informed me they had no listing for that filter. While I was standing there I googled it and showed it to the parts man. He said oh, we even stock that filter.
desertdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2018, 06:23 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
rapid rick's Avatar
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: May 2013
Location: CT
Posts: 664
About 6 months ago, I read a help wanted add in a local, weekly paper that I get in the mail, an rv dealership in union ct had an add which read RV TECH WANTED, LISTED DUTIES OF THE JOB AND ENDED WITH EXPERIENCE NOT REQUIRED, WILL TRAIN.
I have to wonder how many applicants read the add and said to themselves "gee I always wanted to try to work on a big dollar motorhome,and After all, $15.00 an hour is not happening too fast at Mcdonalds I think I'll apply".
__________________

Rapid Rick
2013 Fleetwood Terra 35K
rapid rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"CH FIX" - MODS: Adjustable CHF/ LEVEL SB/ One hole SB FIX TeJay Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 9 03-07-2016 10:19 AM
Can I add a can of R-134 till I can get it fixed? kiethco Monaco Owner's Forum 24 08-16-2015 08:11 AM
Can we go yet, Can we go yet, Can we go yet, Can we go yet, Can we go yet mothgrey Class A Motorhome Discussions 9 11-18-2013 04:51 PM
Myrtle Bch exhaust shops? jackrobinryan Class A Motorhome Discussions 4 03-29-2007 02:44 PM
Any good rv shops? suzloo MH-General Discussions & Problems 3 02-19-2005 03:53 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.