Fire Suppression System

[funjnt]

These people sell Halon units that auto deploy.

https://rvcoolingunit.com/Halon-Fire...1.aspx?sid=298

[Tjclarke696]

Originally Posted by funjnt

These people sell Halon units that auto deploy.

https://rvcoolingunit.com/Halon-Fire...1.aspx?sid=298

Reading the info from this site and the Fire Fight site previously supplied Id be hesitant to buy anything from either one. There are numerous mistakes and inconsistencies in their advertising. I installed, serviced and inspected fire protection systems for 32 years before recently retiring.
I’d love to hear from someone who had one of the clean agent systems installed behind their fridge who had it activate and suppress an actual fire. For the system to operate effectively the gas needs to be contained. I don’t see how that would be possible with the lower and upper vents behind the fridge.
Someone previously mentioned installing systems in their luggage compartments. That’s a place they would work well so long as any penetrations were sealed.

[Tjclarke696]

Originally Posted by zo66

https://youtu.be/xBu9tQDbUz0

Short video from Outside Our Bubble, regarding engine bay fire suppression system installation

Hopefully he opened the shutoff valve on the system after the video!

[johnhicks]

I got them from FireFight which still sells them. It may not actually be halon but halotron or whatever, said to be "clean agent gas."

[G Schulz]

Originally Posted by Wanderer23

Their videos show the canisters various positions. They state they are cost effective, but I can't find a price or where to buy information........yet. AND will they be suitable and effective for a motorhome or other RV applications?



All TBD.



I looked at the ARP website, lots of info and seems a bit more complicated to install than I thought.

The ARP system is not really that hard to install but it’s not plug and play either. There are wiring diagrams for every possible situation. I installed one on my Norcold and it eliminates the possibility of a fridge fire or degrading the fridge itself if it’s not level. Something Norcold should have designed when they built it.

[johnhicks]

> installed behind their fridge

Right, I've never understood how it was supposed to work in a vented compartment. If I really wanted to I'd install a small foam bottle; I'd have to install it under the sink and run a hose to the fridge.

[pumper9x9]

Thought from 35 yrs in the Fire Service and 8 years in motor homes.
1) Almost everything in a MH is either flammable, combustible, corrosive, except the frame and drive train and the fluids in them are all of the above.
2) When stuff burns it produces toxic smoke, even campfires. When motor homes burn they produce a witch’s brew of very toxic chemicals in large amounts.
3) Small fires become very big fires extremely fast. Google the “Time Temperature Curve”.
4) All fire extinguishing systems require annual maintenance if you expect them to work. (probably more often for over the road applications) If you look at systems that have been installed for a number of years you will more often than not find that they’re not operational unless they have had proper maintenance.
5) Halon is no longer an approved or even available extinguishing agent, if you buy it you will probably have to buy a new system down the road if it leaks out or is used. If you have a halon system you may not be able to get it recharged with an approved agent. Make sure the extinguishing agent has current NFAP approval.
6) Portable extinguishing systems are designed to knock down small fires to allow you time to escape to a safe area. If you get lucky it will completely extinguish the fire if the reason for ignition or the fuel is removed. There’s a reason they still have fire departments respond in fully sprinklered buildings with a large supply of extinguishing agent (water).
7) Agent of choice: dry chem, foam, or gas all have their advantages and disadvantages for different applications and areas of your coach. Do your homework talk to the fire prevention folks at the fire department. Talk to multiple dealers who supply systems for over the road vehicles before deciding on a system.
8) Regular recommended maintenance and operation of all coach systems for drive train and domestic will help reduce the chance fires in the first place. Pay attention to recall notices and follow up on them. I’m not trying to dissuade you from installing an extinguishing system. It can be a valuable part of the fire protection system but it is not the end all be all answer.

Be smart, Be safe and Best Wishes

[Tjclarke696]

Originally Posted by pumper9x9

Thought from 35 yrs in the Fire Service and 8 years in motor homes.
1) Almost everything in a MH is either flammable, combustible, corrosive, except the frame and drive train and the fluids in them are all of the above.
2) When stuff burns it produces toxic smoke, even campfires. When motor homes burn they produce a witch’s brew of very toxic chemicals in large amounts.
3) Small fires become very big fires extremely fast. Google the “Time Temperature Curve”.
4) All fire extinguishing systems require annual maintenance if you expect them to work. (probably more often for over the road applications) If you look at systems that have been installed for a number of years you will more often than not find that they’re not operational unless they have had proper maintenance.
5) Halon is no longer an approved or even available extinguishing agent, if you buy it you will probably have to buy a new system down the road if it leaks out or is used. If you have a halon system you may not be able to get it recharged with an approved agent. Make sure the extinguishing agent has current NFAP approval.
6) Portable extinguishing systems are designed to knock down small fires to allow you time to escape to a safe area. If you get lucky it will completely extinguish the fire if the reason for ignition or the fuel is removed. There’s a reason they still have fire departments respond in fully sprinklered buildings with a large supply of extinguishing agent (water).
7) Agent of choice: dry chem, foam, or gas all have their advantages and disadvantages for different applications and areas of your coach. Do your homework talk to the fire prevention folks at the fire department. Talk to multiple dealers who supply systems for over the road vehicles before deciding on a system.
8) Regular recommended maintenance and operation of all coach systems for drive train and domestic will help reduce the chance fires in the first place. Pay attention to recall notices and follow up on them. I’m not trying to dissuade you from installing an extinguishing system. It can be a valuable part of the fire protection system but it is not the end all be all answer.

Be smart, Be safe and Best Wishes

Halon is still available to recharge EXISTING systems. There’s several Halon “banks” located throughout the country that store halon 1301. The government is the biggest user as it’s installed in the cockpits of fighter jets

The biggest problem with any fire protection system wether it’s in an RV, office building or factory: People install them and forget about them until there needed. No different from the fire extinguisher that’s never inspected or the smoke detector that’s never checked

[ThePowells]

Originally Posted by Tjclarke696

Halon is still available to recharge EXISTING systems. There’s several Halon “banks” located throughout the country that store halon 1301. The government is the biggest user as it’s installed in the cockpits of fighter jets

The biggest problem with any fire protection system wether it’s in an RV, office building or factory: People install them and forget about them until there needed. No different from the fire extinguisher that’s never inspected or the smoke detector that’s never checked

Recovered Halon is still available. When a large Halon system is dismantled, the Halon is recovered, similarly to Freon. Then that Halon can be reused in a smaller extinguisher.

[Dutch Star Don]

These aren't great pictures, but it can give you an idea where I mounted mine in the engine bay. The extinguisher is mounted to the ceiling of the engine compartment with the tank predominantly mounted on the passenger side, leaving the nozzle over the center of the engine. The extinguisher is a Fire Fight 200.

[rewillia]

Fire Fight Products, High Expansion Air Compressed Foam system SS300-R46 dual head 4 liter bottle ($575) with optional 6' stainless hose leads and tank mounted vertically on engine compartment frame post as shown.



Fire Fight Products

[Wanderer23]

What type of switch and alert/warning device to indicate the system activated and the need to pull off the road and shut down the engine? Wired or wireless?

Considering the large format dual head foam system.

Thanks

[Tjclarke696]

Originally Posted by ThePowells

Recovered Halon is still available. When a large Halon system is dismantled, the Halon is recovered, similarly to Freon. Then that Halon can be reused in a smaller extinguisher.

Pretty sure that's what my statement said. It's recovered and then stored in one of several Halon Banks across the country for future use.
The 2 links provided for clean agents systems are also not Halon but FM 200 which is a replacement gas for Halon that does not damage the ozone. In my opinion (30 plus years installing fire protection systems, 20 plus years as a firefighter, licensed Fire Inspector in NJ, member of several NFPA committees) the clean agent systems will not work effectively in either the engine compartment or behind the refrigerator as there not air tight compartments which is required for the gas to maintain it's proper concentration to be effective.
As for the foam systems: Someone mentioned an optional switch for signaling that the system has activated. Didn't see that option on the Fire Fight site. Without it I don't see the foam system operating properly either. If your driving 60mph down the road and the system dumps, between the engine fan blowing and the speed of the vehicle the foam will not stay in place and will not provide the smothering effect that is needed to extinguish a fire and keep it from reigniting.
It's funny how on the Fire Fighter site they post plenty of pictures of burning RV's to get you all wound up, after all isn't everyone afraid of fire? But not one testimonial from someone who installed one of their systems and had it extinguish a fire.
They also explain on their website how a clean agent system works by removing the oxygen from the fire. That's NOT how clean agent systems work:
FM200 fire suppression systems, safety, applications, longevity, extinguishing capabilities

That right there sets off warning signs for me. You don't know how the systems your selling work???
I'm 110% for fire safety. I believe every building should be fully sprinklered as "Sprinklers Save Lives". As far as these systems go, I believe they provide a false sense of security and attempt to play into our fears of fire (all the pictures of burning RV's). I don't believe they will work as intended. I may be wrong but 32 years of experience and training tell me otherwise.
If you want to invest in something the ARP system seems to me to be the best investment.

[cruzbill]

Tj, I appreciate your years of service and expertise, but is an automatic fire fighting system in a MH that complicated? You've pointed out what doesn't work and why, good info. But what will work?

Its easy to figure where-Gen compartment, inv/batt compartment, fridge, engine. Now, each one may need a slightly different system-what is it??

I have no beef with the ARP device, but it won't put out a fire, it only reduces the chance for a refrig overheat situation. Still, good to have.

Since most MH are very similar in fire hazard and even layout, what is your recommendation for suppression systems that work?

And I hope that no one here ever has to face a fire, anywhere! Been there, done that.