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Old 02-13-2016, 08:25 AM   #1
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Wink Five Star Tuning

Have read and reread about this product - I understand what it does. I aslo have friends that have used them on machines other than RVs. The "ultimate" question I have, and there seems to be conflict on this, is whether it voids the Ford warranty?
Does anyone know for sure? Sure enough to bet your coach on?:
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:58 AM   #2
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Technically YES it will void the warranty because you are altering their tuning parameters. Now consider some other thoughts and facts.

I have not read nor heard of anybody being denied an engine claim after installing the 5 Star.

I also believe that 5 Star has posted on these forums something about Ford installing their TUNE in some vehicles at Fords request. That would need some clarification by 5 Star.

It is also my understanding that Ford has to prove that the TUNE caused the engine issue. That would be a long and expensive process for Ford.

The new TUNE can easily be removed and the stock tune installed. Can Ford determine if you ever had a different TUNE installed?? We don't really know. We all have heard different opinions regarding that issue.

Now an educated thought. The TUNE alters the shifting schedule, torque converter lock up and unlock, fuel mixtures and other parameters. They do this because it is for an RV as opposed to a city delivery truck, or ambulance platform.

According to 5 Star Ford has about 110 different tunes over the years just for the RV. I really doubt they want to increase their number of tunes any more than they already have. Most of their different engine codes are probably due to EPA changes in emission standards. I doubt they want to add more to the mix.

I was told by my Nephew who is a lead engineer at the F-150 transmission plant in Detroit that Ford would never change their shifting tunes for each different application of their engines. They just won't do what 5-Star is doing for RV's for what ever the reason. Probably the same reason why they install the stabilizer links on the outer hole as opposed to the inner even if it gives the RV much better sway control. We all know that as the CHF (Cheap Handling Fix).

The biggest concern with the above mentioned altered tune items would be altering the stoichiometric mixture towards the lean side causing increased cylinder head temperatures. That can and will burn valves or cause other heat related failures. That can be avoided by simply not allowing the mixture to be programmed towards the lean side.

It is in the future interest of 5 Star to not have any engine issues related to their tune. Even one well publicized claim believed proven or not would destroy the future of 5 Star. They are way, way to involved in many many areas of engine tuning to take any chances that their product will cause an engine issue.

Now lets talk about Ford. Do a search here on this form for a fairly long post by Dave-Oh. I'll give you the short story. He has a brand new coach. Less than 5,000 miles and it has a vibration around 55-65 MPH. He has very carefully and methodically done all he has ever been asked to do. He has taken many days off work to drive the 1 hour to and 1 hour back to visit various dealers, tire shops, alignment shops, etc,etc. After close to a year still no solution and FORD has stopped responding to him and presently it is in the lawyers hands. They FORD have given up and will not even try to fix it. That's FORDS RV warranty department.

What are the chances that FORD would waste a lot of time and $$$$$ trying to prove that an alteration of their tune schedule cause an engine issue when 5 Star has been so careful to have never had a single issue regarding their TUNE?? I just don't believe it will happen.

I now enjoy driving our RV. It's a lot easier and more fun to drive. My comfort is more important than worrying about a possible engine issue based on the TUNE since I have yet to hear of one. I and many others have expressed the same feelings and we will take the risk.

TeJay
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Old 02-13-2016, 09:45 AM   #3
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I agree 100% with TeJay. The tune logic could apply to many other things on the engine, use a OEM air filter? OEM oil filter? OEM oil? spark plugs? so many things can change the initial engine set up and they are never questioned in a warranty situation. I don't see how the tune would matter or not. I reset my engine to factory tune every time I take it in and only run the tune for my driving pleasure. It makes the engine perform much better to my RV needs and I believe prolongs the engine life because it is working in concert with my driving and load characteristics. JMO
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:16 PM   #4
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The tune logic could apply to many other things on the engine, use a OEM air filter? OEM oil filter? OEM oil? spark plugs?
------------------------------

Not really. Those filters and plugs and so forth must meet Ford's specs. If they don't, and there is a failure it would not be warrantable. The manufacturer cannot require the use of their proprietary products. But they can and do require the products meet their specs. As for the tune that's a different story. If an aftermarket tune causes a failure Ford will probably decline coverage. As stated, very hard to prove. But Ford has an army of lawyers on retainer. You only have one or two.
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:36 PM   #5
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Accept your point but where is the flood of claims on engine issues related to the TUNE?? For that matter where is the single claim??

I tried to explain common sense information. If one is really worried just call 5-Star and ask. They are fine folks, as attested to by their excellent customer support. Yes they are trying to make money but again if they produced a product that was faulty they would not stay in business very long.

Life is about choices. Gather in what information you can use some common sense and make a decision. Life is a lot more fun if decisions are not made on what just MIGHT happen but on what is least likely to happen. You won't drown if you decide it's to dangerous but look at all the fun you missed.

TeJay
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Old 02-14-2016, 07:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
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I agree 100% with TeJay. The tune logic could apply to many other things on the engine, use a OEM air filter? OEM oil filter? OEM oil? spark plugs? so many things can change the initial engine set up and they are never questioned in a warranty situation. I don't see how the tune would matter or not. I reset my engine to factory tune every time I take it in and only run the tune for my driving pleasure. It makes the engine perform much better to my RV needs and I believe prolongs the engine life because it is working in concert with my driving and load characteristics. JMO
The safest thing is to wait for all your warranties to expire then add your tune. You can add a tune then remove it BUT it leaves a footprint if they look for it.
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Old 02-14-2016, 09:21 AM   #7
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All you have to do is go to the ford diesel forum and read about all the 6.0 failures and see how many ford has denied. Because of the tuner install. Ford has go so far as to put a big warning label in the engine compartment of all their trucks warning about the use of tunners. They paid so much money out on the 6.0 that they have taken a no nonsense approach about tuners and they will fight it to the bitter end if it comes down to replacing an engine and it has had a tunner installed. I have owned ford trucks for over 40 years and have had the 7.3, 6.0, 6.4, 6.7 diesels and the 3.7 Eco boost gas engine and follow the diesel forum daily and thing have changed in the way ford is looking at tunners. The will and have attritubed engine failure to tunners. Why do you think that 5 Star states on their web site that you can put the truck back to stock if you need to taken it for warranty work. If they didn't think there was a problem they would not need to add this statement. Ford can tell from the computer that a tune has been installed and removed.
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Old 02-14-2016, 10:20 AM   #8
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Are you making the leap that just because there are issues with the diesel tunes that it would/could also effect the gas tunes?? It would also help to know which companies TUNES are causing these failures. There are several or maybe many companies doing these TUNES. It might be prudent not to lump them all into one pot. I don't know just asking for some clarification.

Is there evidence of gas engine failures occurring because if it has happened it has not been mentioned. No I personally have not read every post on every forum regarding this issue. Just looking for some V-10 engine failures pointing to the 5 Star tune as the problem that's all.

TeJay
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:09 PM   #9
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No, I am just saying that Ford is really taking a hard stand on tunes because all the money they have had to pay out traced to tunes. Now with that being said, most of the problems associated with the diesels was because people were tunning these motors with huge horsepower and torque tunes that were destroying engines. I don't think the 5Star is used for this type of tune but Ford has been burned so many times they have lumped all tunes into the same category thus the warning labels you will now find on all Ford trucks. It is a buyer beware situation. They cannot just blank void your warranty, they would have to prove that any failure was caused by the tune but they seem to be willing to go down that path.
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Old 02-14-2016, 05:02 PM   #10
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No, I am just saying that Ford is really taking a hard stand on tunes because all the money they have had to pay out traced to tunes. Now with that being said, most of the problems associated with the diesels was because people were tunning these motors with huge horsepower and torque tunes that were destroying engines. I don't think the 5Star is used for this type of tune but Ford has been burned so many times they have lumped all tunes into the same category thus the warning labels you will now find on all Ford trucks. It is a buyer beware situation. They cannot just blank void your warranty, they would have to prove that any failure was caused by the tune but they seem to be willing to go down that path.

Like it or not, if you run a tuner program its called "Tampering" as far as the government is concerned. Ford also has to look at that aspect of it as they cannot condone tampering or be seen as condoning it. Its the same thing as people who pull the catalytic converter off their cars. Any on-road engine is EPA certified and is not to be tampered with. That's the long and the short of it - whether you like it or not.
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Old 02-14-2016, 05:15 PM   #11
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Technically YES it will void the warranty because you are altering their tuning parameters. Now consider some other thoughts and facts.

I have not read nor heard of anybody being denied an engine claim after installing the 5 Star.

It is also my understanding that Ford has to prove that the TUNE caused the engine issue. That would be a long and expensive process for Ford.

What are the chances that FORD would waste a lot of time and $$$$$ trying to prove that an alteration of their tune schedule cause an engine issue when 5 Star has been so careful to have never had a single issue regarding their TUNE?? I just don't believe it will happen.
TeJay

Unfortunately I think the reality of it would be that Ford would just refuse to honor the warranty and then it would be up to YOU to prove that the aftermarket tuning DIDN'T cause whatever problem may arise . . .
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Old 02-15-2016, 07:11 AM   #12
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WEll, Good points by all. I have no worries about using my 5 Star tune on my v-10. It has been a worth while expensive to give me a much smoother performing engine and transmission. I have 3 downloads of data from three separate trips and see no values outside of the normal performance range.
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Old 02-17-2016, 05:30 PM   #13
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Hi everybody and thank you for the positive feedback. There is a thing called Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which was enacted in 1975. It states that a company can not deny a warranty claim unless an aftermarket part was directly responsible for the malfunction. It is up to the company to prove it not the consumer to disprove it. For those of you that are worried we offer a warranty you can buy that will fix whatever is wrong if our tune is directly responsible for the malfunction. We do an extensive amount of testing before we release a tune for any product we support. Just ask anyone with a 2016 Ford chassis we have been working on that for a long time and still not quite there yet to release a product. Once SCT develops the tables we need to finish the tune right we will release it. I assure all of you we make sure we release the safest tunes possible. If any of you have any questions about warranties feel free to call us and ask we will gladly answer any questions you have.
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:37 AM   #14
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Hi everybody and thank you for the positive feedback. There is a thing called Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which was enacted in 1975. I assure all of you we make sure we release the safest tunes possible. If any of you have any questions about warranties feel free to call us and ask we will gladly answer any questions you have.
Thank you for the quick response !!! I had no worries before on your product but i now have the legal backing to combat any warranty issue that MAY occur over the next two years on my FORD V-10. Thanks again 5STAR and what a great costumer service you represent for all companies to follow.
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