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Old 07-29-2016, 06:48 AM   #29
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Despite assertion that horsepower is horsepower, you will find that a diesel powered MH drives differently than a gas powered one.

Percieved performance is influenced by things like noise and vibration. The gas MH will have an engine up front and the diesel will have an engine in back. If all you are interested in is the time to climb then most any MH you pick will have an engine that does the job. You may find that the driving experience of a diesel is worth having, or not. There are some options that are available on diesel MH's you won't find on gas MH's at any price. If the only difference in two MH's is the fuel you put in it then you have to decide if the different driving experience is worth the extra cost.

Drive them all!
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Old 07-29-2016, 07:12 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by dkrobath View Post
I am looking to upgrade and have a 36 ft gasser now. Was wondering what HP DP is equal in power to a V10. So I know where to start. What size do you recommend for some hill climbing in a 40+ foot coach. 300, 360, 400, 450?
Is there a comparison chart out there?
Thanks
Going back to the OP question. I can speak from my experience. I now have a 362HP gasser 22k gvwr. I used to have a 330HP DP 33k gvwr. Leaving all other things out of the discussion.
There is simply no comparison when it comes to mountains/grades. The DP had 950ft/lbs of torque. I could climb grades as fast as most cars. The gasser has 457ft/lbs of torque. I know climb hills but I am in the right lane as others pass me by.
Flat roads were not an issue. Either will do the job easily.
The DP got ~8mpg and the gasser about 7.
When it comes to DP the weight and torque are things to focus on. If I went with another DP I would not be happy with anything less than the combo I had 330HP/950ft/lbs torque. Gassers right now you have one choice for a new class A but you have one and have a good idea how it performs.
And I am happier I have at least $30k (even more to be honest) more in my bank account because I went gasser now.
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Old 07-29-2016, 07:55 AM   #31
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The Wynn's video seems to accurately report the differences between gas and diesel class A's in terms of engine noise, braking, ride comfort, sway. I would agree that the OP needs to determine his wants/needs in terms of floor plan, storage capacity, towing ability. Having had a gas class A before getting two subsequent DP's, IMO if you plan to drive the coach a lot and noise, handling and comfort are important to you, the DP is the only way to go. If those things are not that important, either with get you from A to B.

Bottom line, if I had to drive the coach in the Wynn's video on the trips we normally take cross country and listen to that gas engine scream, mixed in with the rattles and squeaks, I would hang up the keys and quit the RV lifestyle.
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Old 07-29-2016, 08:53 AM   #32
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V10 Vs Diesel

Good friend went from 350 DP to a new Motor Home ,Ford 450 with the V10. He pulls a Jeep and just completed a 4500 mile trip. I asked him some of the same questions regarding performance , he is an experienced traveler and put many miles on his DP before this new purchase.He is more then satisfied and loves the new unit. This is not a technical report.....just a report from a satisfied V10 owner. I have a 400 ISL in my unit and personally would not ever own a gas rig. To each his own.
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Old 07-29-2016, 02:10 PM   #33
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I disagree. Horsepower is horsepower, no matter how it is produced. This IS an apples to apples comparison.

The only difference between the Ford V-10 and the typical diesel is the RPM at which the horsepower is produced. The diesel will hit its HP peak somewhere around 2,000 RPM, while you'll have to spin that Ford up to about 4,500 RPM to get maximum HP out of it. But HP is HP, and that 362 HP V-10 will perform just as well as a 360 HP diesel, if it is driven correctly.
This is the craziest thing I have read in a long time. A diesel and a gas engine with the same horsepower will perform the same. Absolutely incorrect. Need to go back to engineering 101 and spend some time leaning how horsepower is determined. It is basically a calculation based on.... I'll let you learn the answer. Torque is easily determined and it is this property that enables diesels to pull heavier loads compared to gas engines. Enough with his both engines are the same nonsense.
After your study I'm sure you will have a basic understanding of why the engines are different and why each is more useful for certain tasks.
Why on earth would there be two two styles of engines unless they each had a role to play?
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Old 07-29-2016, 05:23 PM   #34
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If personal experience has not equipped you to reach the specifics about powerplants on your own you will pretty consistently be told "the biggest you can afford". Not bad if buying and operating is not that big a factor for your pocketbook. If you know what the weight is you actually will drag around and the geography you normally run in then you can make some pretty good conclusions. My motorhome is 39 feet and normally weighs in about 31,000 pounds. The new ISB 6.9 runs it around fine and I am real happy with the fuel burn I can get, but I often suck up more when it suits me. I go up hills right with the guys with much, much "bigger" powerplants and that's fine for them and fine for me. I don't keep schedules any more so usually I plod long about 60-63 but when in a hurry the 70-75 does hit the fuel burn.
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Old 07-29-2016, 07:44 PM   #35
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This is the craziest thing I have read in a long time. A diesel and a gas engine with the same horsepower will perform the same. Absolutely incorrect.
I have been holding off saying the SAME thing.

Having owned both gas and diesel pickups and V10 and current diesel motor home, I would never, ever, own another V10 motor home.

My wife "bought" the current DP. She was tired of sitting next to the 6,000 RPM V10 on the trips that we took. A 15 mile test ride in the DP was all it took!
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Old 07-30-2016, 08:36 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by 09 harley View Post
This is the craziest thing I have read in a long time. A diesel and a gas engine with the same horsepower will perform the same. Absolutely incorrect. Need to go back to engineering 101 and spend some time leaning how horsepower is determined. It is basically a calculation based on.... I'll let you learn the answer. Torque is easily determined and it is this property that enables diesels to pull heavier loads compared to gas engines. Enough with his both engines are the same nonsense.
After your study I'm sure you will have a basic understanding of why the engines are different and why each is more useful for certain tasks.
Why on earth would there be two two styles of engines unless they each had a role to play?
On paper both engines will perform the same. The same formula is used for both.

HP = torque X RPM / 5252.

What is different is how you drive them in order to make them perform the same. Everyone agrees to drive a gas engine at 4 - 5,000 rpm is not what you want to do.

IMO gas engines have many benefits including ease of use/maintain and economy to produce. You just don't want to put them in really heavy vehicles although there is no reason you can't. In my early days I built hundreds of miles of road where the truckers were using 401 and 427 engines in tandem gravel trucks.
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Old 07-30-2016, 11:47 AM   #37
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There are many posts from gas MH owners talking about climbing mountains in the slow lane, going 40 mph or so. I don't think this is because of the machine, I think it's because the driver/passenger don't want to listen to the engine howl. When we climb, it's at max HP, blasting over western mountain passes at 60 mph easily. The trade-off is that the engine is deafening at 4750 rpm. You can't blame anyone for not wanting to listen to that, so it's understandable to climb more slowly. It's not because the engine is underpowered, though.

I look forward to upgrading to a DP someday, for the rear engine, air suspension, washing machine, dishwasher, and less rattles. But I also worry that a 340HP engine on >30klb of coach would mean some slow climbing.
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Old 07-30-2016, 03:56 PM   #38
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There are quite a few threads on the differences between gas and diesel engines here. Search through and read a couple to get a flavor for the difference.

I would suggest a more important criteria is to find a floor plan that both you and your partner both agree on. You will spend more time sleeping and sitting in the MH than driving it and any quality MH builder will make sure that you have enough power to get between point A and B, but domestic tranquility only occurs when both of you are happy. Start with floor plans and layout requirements first, then worry about drive train, power and miles per gallon.
X2 that is some of the best advise I have heard when someone is trying to decide Gas or Diesel. Especially if they are new to RVing.
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Old 07-30-2016, 04:38 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Vacay Wheels View Post
There are many posts from gas MH owners talking about climbing mountains in the slow lane, going 40 mph or so. I don't think this is because of the machine, I think it's because the driver/passenger don't want to listen to the engine howl. When we climb, it's at max HP, blasting over western mountain passes at 60 mph easily. The trade-off is that the engine is deafening at 4750 rpm. You can't blame anyone for not wanting to listen to that, so it's understandable to climb more slowly. It's not because the engine is underpowered, though.

I look forward to upgrading to a DP someday, for the rear engine, air suspension, washing machine, dishwasher, and less rattles. But I also worry that a 340HP engine on >30klb of coach would mean some slow climbing.
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Old 07-30-2016, 05:03 PM   #40
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It would probably be more helpful if people knew what you were looking at. I can tell you that at 350hp and just over 1000lb/ft of torque my 38ft coach goes just fine towing a car that weights about 4500lbs. Going longer than 38ft I certainly would want at least 350+, more likely 400-500. I wouldn't mind having more power myself, but i don't feel what my coach has is inadequate. I just want more.

Unless you're looking at a very small DP I wouldn't expect to see the ISB engine spec'd in one. Usually the ISC for the 36-40ft and then on to the ISL and ISX. On long, steep grades you're going to slow down, that's just the nature of the beast. I have a 3.5 mile, winding, 6-7* grade to get to my house, that tops out close to 9* at the last 1/8th mile. I usually crest it doing just under 40mph. Doesn't matter if I'm towing a car or not. It's not uncommon to see freight trucks pulled over on the way up this climb or just after it. Usually when I get passed by another MH on a climb it's either a small class C or a big bus conversion. Nothing like being in the middle of a long grade and having a 45ft bus conversion with a match painted stacker trailer come flying by you.

Really, you only have a handful of chassis manufacturers out there, mostly Spartan and Freightliner, unless you go with a company that "builds their own"; usually by purchasing front and rear ends from Freightliner.

I would personally look for a floor plan I liked, then take it for a drive and see how it handled. A coach with a great motor and a crap floorplan isn't going to make you happy. Meanwhile, unless the coach you're looking at was built to appease more to budget than anything else, it should have enough motor. We'd all want more power, and if you can find a coach that ticks all the boxes for you and has more motor than the competitors then I'd say go for it.

To get a completely reversed view on this subject, you can check out this video, where they went from DP to gas. They compare driving in the hills in a gas coach to what they experienced in their Fleetwood DP.
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Old 07-30-2016, 05:11 PM   #41
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I know, I seen a couple of those bay stars blow by me! Regards
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Old 07-30-2016, 05:47 PM   #42
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Gas Coach

The gas coach in that video sounded like a dang Twin Otter going up the mild grade at 42mph. i wouldn't want to listen to that racket , or fuel it constantly.
Not condeming all gas coaches....but i would never own that tank.
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