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Old 11-22-2012, 04:59 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Sky_Boss View Post
240 hp...22,000 GVWR... Seems a tad light on HP to me.

The one thing about FREDs (like my Adventurer) is the mid point entry. I do like that with 2 big dogs. Not sure I like it THAT much to go that small. LOL The other thing is if we upgrade, part of the reason is to get the genset out from under out bed too.
With all respect, the number to look at isn't HP, it's torque. When I started driving trucks for a living, a "shiny" 290 (HP) Cummins was a respected motor. The 6V-71 was a Detroit Diesel V6 putting out 238HP. These and later 350 Cat and Cummins motors routinely pulled 80,000+ gross all over the country.

560 ft/lbs. torque is plenty for 22,000 lbs.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:04 PM   #30
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Sky boss: Is it true air traffic controllers tell pilots where to go?
Well, kinda. LOL Actually, we only tell them where to go if they can't follow a flight plan...then it is the "penalty box" for them.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:13 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Keith4001r View Post
With all respect, the number to look at isn't HP, it's torque. When I started driving trucks for a living, a "shiny" 290 (HP) Cummins was a respected motor. The 6V-71 was a Detroit Diesel V6 putting out 238HP. These and later 350 Cat and Cummins motors routinely pulled 80,000+ gross all over the country.

560 ft/lbs. torque is plenty for 22,000 lbs.
Well, yes and now...I think.

I think it is just a little light not horribly so. It really seems to depend on a few things. First, I tend to believe in the rule of thumb of 10 HP per 1000# of weight. Now, one can debate at the wheel or flywheel on that but I don't. So, if you add a nominal 4000# for a toad and only load the MH to 21K#, it is reasonable to say 250 HP is a reasonable number and maybe 235 HP is just a little light. Hey...it is an opinion.
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Old 11-22-2012, 06:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

Well, kinda. LOL Actually, we only tell them where to go if they can't follow a flight plan...then it is the "penalty box" for them.
But radar air traffic controllers do it in the dark, of that I am sure. BTDT.

As for HP and torque - I think my 325 turbo and 750 tq is fine but have read so many posts in favor of more of one, the other or both. Gotta drive em to know for yourself. At some point it's overkill, mileage and performance will all top out. For what price glory? Just MHO.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:14 PM   #33
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But radar air traffic controllers do it in the dark, of that I am sure. BTDT.

As for HP and torque - I think my 325 turbo and 750 tq is fine but have read so many posts in favor of more of one, the other or both. Gotta drive em to know for yourself. At some point it's overkill, mileage and performance will all top out. For what price glory? Just MHO.
I work in and up/down facility...radar and cab...best of both worlds with LOTS of training traffic. LOL

I think your 325 HP probably falls in line with my 10 HP/1000# for most FRED applications with room to spare for loss of actual HP to the wheels. For heavier DPs, I think it does the job but at the upper GCWR numbers might be challenged a bit in big hills.

So, I'm not saying even smaller engines can't get heavy MHs around the country, but I am spoiled and like HP to spare. No...I am not interested in 500HP MHs because I don't want to go that big anyway. LOL

Still, all things being equal in HP ratios, I give the nod to the DP for storage if one is looking at long, loaded trips. For part time use, even extended trips, a FRED might do very well and they tend to be lower prices. Sometimes they are significantly lower in price. And I do like the mid entry too.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:34 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

I work in and up/down facility...radar and cab...best of both worlds with LOTS of training traffic. LOL

I think your 325 HP probably falls in line with my 10 HP/1000# for most FRED applications with room to spare for loss of actual HP to the wheels. For heavier DPs, I think it does the job but at the upper GCWR numbers might be challenged a bit in big hills.
My 325/750 is ISB DP on 38F and is fine for us. We looked at where we would spend most of our time - and was't going to be up and down mountains - used the 80/20 rule. 80% of the time or more we would not be in mountains so we just move over to the right and wave to those racing to the top. Never saw trophies handed out to first one to the bottom.

Worked up and down - AF GCA '74-'76 - T-37 and T-38 and anything that wanted to put down on Center 10,500 feet between two UPT runways. Good times. Over.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:43 PM   #35
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My 325/750 is ISB DP on 38F and is fine for us. We looked at where we would spend most of our time - and was't going to be up and down mountains - used the 80/20 rule. 80% of the time or more we would not be in mountains so we just move over to the right and wave to those racing to the top. Never saw trophies handed out to first one to the bottom.

Worked up and down - AF GCA '74-'76 - T-37 and T-38 and anything that wanted to put down on Center 10,500 feet between two UPT runways. Good times. Over.
I like that 80/20 rule.

Where were you at? I spent 4.5 years at Selfridge, ANGB. Active duty on guard base was great. That was after busting up a knee trying to be a combat controller.
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Old 11-22-2012, 09:56 PM   #36
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Sky_Boss - check your PM.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:14 AM   #37
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My Fred has genset under kitchen. Plenty of room for fulltime; what we aint got we dont need!
If I had the extra $80k for a small DP I would apprecitate better ride, but its good enough for now. RV is a base point to explore with my Wrangler. Just sayin...
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:31 AM   #38
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2013 Bounder Classic Diesel Exterior Graphics | Fleetwood RV

They sure do a good job hiding the fact it is a FRED. Says it has full air suspension and brakes.

What is a FRED?

Thanks
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:37 AM   #39
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What is a FRED?

Thanks
FRont End Diesel. Every once in a while you will see the term RED for Rear End Diesel too.

FREDs seem to have a wide variety of approaches. Some will have air suspension and some won't. I'm thinking that might go the same for air brakes but I am not certain about that. A large number of FREDs will have a mid door entry instead of a front door entry. They share the same concept as a front engine in that it will have a long drive shaft and thus smaller basement storage compared to a DP.

Hope that helps.
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:27 AM   #40
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The amount of rear overhang is basically a cost-decision by the RV manufacturer. He can build more cheaply if he uses a shorter wheelbase chassis and then stretch the body to the desired length. There is a side benefit in that the maneuverability is improved with a shorter chassis, though there are drawbacks as well ("swing-out" of the long rear end and poorer road handling & ride). Higher end coaches will typically have much longer wheel bases than entry level models of similar length, giving them less overhang but a longer turning radius.
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:56 AM   #41
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FRont End Diesel. Every once in a while you will see the term RED for Rear End Diesel too.

FREDs seem to have a wide variety of approaches. Some will have air suspension and some won't. I'm thinking that might go the same for air brakes but I am not certain about that. A large number of FREDs will have a mid door entry instead of a front door entry. They share the same concept as a front engine in that it will have a long drive shaft and thus smaller basement storage compared to a DP.

Hope that helps.
Not trying to be picky Sky Boss, but it is Front Engine Diesel.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:38 AM   #42
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Not trying to be picky Sky Boss, but it is Front Engine Diesel.
But you are being picky!

But...you are 100% correct!

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