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Old 08-03-2011, 12:30 AM   #1
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Front engine diesel or DP

Hello,

I have a 2009 Tiffin open road 35QBA with a Fred. Iím thinking of up grading to a Tiffin open road 38QBA RED. The Fred has no air bags so itís a bumpy ride. I never thought I would be pulling any car but now I have a 25 ft. boat. Going up the hill itís not to good. Has anybody experienced from a Fred to diesel pusher. Would I be getting a whole lot more power when the 09 Fred has (300 HP- 620 lbs of torque) and the RED (340HP 660lbs of torque). Thatís only 40lbs. Would that make a difference??? I would appreciated any input Thanks
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:53 AM   #2
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Probably won't notice the difference since the Red is probably heavier, but the ride should be better with air suspension.
Now if you went to an 450 hp 1250 ft lbs ISL maybe, but then it'd weigh more too and that slows you down.
You'd need to drive them and see if it matches your needs.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:50 AM   #3
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You really, really need to drive a couple before deciding. It doesn't sound like much but I was quite surprised at the difference between my old coach and this one. They were both 42' tags weighing approx. the same. My old one had the Cummins 360 / 1050 and this one has the Cummins 450/1250. After putting 4,000 miles on it over the last couple of months I'm almost shocked at how much difference there is. One thing to be very aware of I think is that the larger the displacement of the engine, say 5.9 vs. 8.3, both Cummins in this case, results in substantially more torque at lower RPM. Torque is what gives you the power you're looking for. These engines also change, in some cases quite a bit, as they "break in". My 360 at the 20K mark felt like a different engine than when it was brand new. Maybe a well looked after used coach with more oomphh is the way to go ... lots of them out there right now?
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:52 AM   #4
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Thank you this really helps.
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:09 PM   #5
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I agree w/ coached. Gotta drive to feel the difference. Our 400hp Cummins DP is just amazing...and it's the torque that gets us going. We barely feel the mountains w/ our toad.
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:10 PM   #6
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Horsepower is for racing, torque is for pulling, in these beasts it's ALL about the torque. I pulled a 50 ft trailer with my powerstroke that had about the same HP as my ISL, but the ISL has double the torque. What I pull with the ISL at double the weight made me an instant believer in the torque. DP for ride and quiet, torque 1000 lbs/ft or above and you will be very happy. The bottom line, FREDs are glorified pickup engines that pale in comparison to an ORT engine designed to lug the weight. Just my .02
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:39 PM   #7
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Front engine vs Pusher

Another thing is the quiet of the DP. Front engine makes more noise in the front of your bus while cruising down the road. Also the location of the generator makes a difference too. With the DP, the generator is in the front and the bedroom in the rear. You can feel the generator running, but you sure can't hear it much.
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:11 AM   #8
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MHO,I agree 100% with the other posters, you need more torque for the bigger coach. The 40 ft/lb gain will be eaten up by the coaches extra weight.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:35 AM   #9
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Off topic a little I fear, but for those with Fred experience, would you mind a quick comment comparing the Fred to an equivalent gasser coach? I'm wondering about engine noise mostly, but if there's any other gotcha I should know about regarding a switch like this, would be great to hear about that as well? Thinking older Wanderlodge. The owners say they're great (of course!), just wondering if that's a universal opinion?
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahicks View Post
Off topic a little I fear, but for those with Fred experience, would you mind a quick comment comparing the Fred to an equivalent gasser coach? I'm wondering about engine noise mostly, but if there's any other gotcha I should know about regarding a switch like this, would be great to hear about that as well? Thinking older Wanderlodge. The owners say they're great (of course!), just wondering if that's a universal opinion?
Easy ... we bought a brand new 2005 Winnie Adventurer, 39' on a W24 chassis, 8.1 Vortec, had Banks installed on it to be extra sure 'cause we're towing a Grand Cherokee as well ... first trip out was fine, ran good, sounded great ... got to first big, long pull on I-81 south and, wow, transmission kicked down two gears and tach went up to about 4200 rpm and stayed there! We couldn't hear ourselves think let alone talk to each other with this monster screaming in between the two of us. Two more big pulls on that stretch of highway and I'd had it. I'm from the old school, the one where a big v-8 screamin' at 4200 is either racing late at night on a dark street somewhere or at a dragstrip, not in a motorhome. We kept this unit 4 months, took our $$ bath, and moved up to a DP. Never looked back as they say. In hindsight though (I know, I know), that really is way too much coach on a light chassis with a gas engine. I'm surprised they sell them actually.
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