Full-timing in Desert Heat in Summer

[CoachDitka]

Originally Posted by followingsea

What you are missing is that summers in places like Las Vegas the heat will kill you if you do not have a good plan for staying cool.

I worked in the power industry. I have formal training in hazard evaluation. In fact I took the DOE course in Las Vegas.

So let me put some numbers on it. Generally speaking electricity is in the US is four nines reliable. That is not good enough if a life depends on electricity for something like a ventilator or being out to sea in a ship. You need to add two more nines. That is to say you have backup generator tested under load monthly with battery backup that will only fail only once in every hundred starts.

In this case the probability of being without power is one in a million. We call insignificant.

Now lets look at an RV. How can lose power? The grid could go down. Very reliable in the US. In Spain it was about once a week and the breakers has to be reset manually. Then the campground could lose power with all the AC kicking on. Then you could trip the breaker to your RV.

Then your generator does not start. It is an RV not a emergency generator at a nuke plant. Then your generator trips because of what ever.

In other words, your dog will die before the end of summer. I would not bet money on it. Not because I will lose money but because it would be in poor taste.

To avoid this you need a very reliable method of letting you know you have lost power. You also need a back up such as someone who check on the dog when you are at work.

I don't think the campground is likely to lose power as I explained. It's run by a casino that has has huge electrical loads and I feel like they probably have a good handle on this. I will obviously look into it more but how realistic of a problem is this really?

As far as tripping the breaker to my coach, again how likely is this really if I am operating comfortably within the load capacities?

You say that the dog will die by the end of the summer, meaning >50% chance of the dog dying. So what are the chances of any of these things really happening? If on any given day there is a 1% chance and the summer is 120 days long, then by the end of the summer the dog lives 30% of the time. If it's .1% now she survives each day we're at almost 90%--good but not good enough. .01% gets us up over 98% and that's good enough for me.

So what event is going to happen more than once out of every 10,000 days that will kill the dog?

The odds of the whole campground having a long power outage seem incredibly remote given the fact that it's a casino.

So what is going to go wrong inside the coach? It's a 2-year old coach with no electrical problems. There's no reason the breakers should be tripped for the roof units and they are each on their own dedicated breaker. The microwave circuit breaker should be adequate to handle a third A/C. The total wattage of all three A/Cs is only 70% of capacity if they all cycle at exactly the same time. Most likely though they won't cycle and just stay on all the time, which puts them at like 30% capacity. Why would that trip anything?

If it's really that likely, there are simple systems I could use to monitor the temp with a remote viewing camera focused on both the dog and a thermometer inside the coach. I can be there in 15 minutes if there's ever a problem.

This conversation is happening 3 months before the summer time. I am trying to prepare and anticipate what issues might come up. If it's truly impossible I have other easy options--it's only like $400/mo for dog day care, but it seems like there's got to be an easier way.

All I'm saying is that so far nobody has given me any real reason why this is such a bad idea, people have raised many reasonable issues to consider but I think my responses address each one and nobody has pointed out any error in those responses. I'm definitely open to the fact I might be wrong, and admittedly I've never lived in the coach in the summer.

Obviously things go wrong and I don't want my dog to die. But there's risks in everything and I'm not seeing how this is certain to go poorly if you have the proper redundancies in place.

You seem to have a big jump in your logic between, A) the US grid is very reliable, B) Your generator might not start and your conclusion, C) Your dog will definitely die before the end of the summer.

[CoachDitka]

Originally Posted by fcbbob15

I live in Vegas. I do not live in my RV. I can tell you that in July and August your A/C units will run most of the day. The one thing that helped the most with cooling and heating was a heavy curtain blocking the cab area from the living area. My DW made one with thermal material in between drapery material. Made a huge difference. We have two 15,000 BTU units. We also keep the shades down. Reflectix would help also. A word of caution, low voltage is a killer of A/C compressors. Running on 50 amp may help, I would not run both of mine on 30 amp in the summer. I work for a casino and we have lost power for hours. Two major casino's here lost power in parts of the casino for days. It can and does happen. Those portable A/C units with hose don't work all that well and costly to run.

I was not planning on using 30 amp. The math doesn't really work. And I get that the portable units don't work too well, that's why it will be the third unit and thankfully I will be using an un-metered electrical connection.

I know that outages happen, but the casinos have sophisticated grids and their own production capability to make sure that they are delivering powers to the guest areas and I would assume the RV park is no different.

Nobody has given me an answer on just how fast the coach heats up if the power goes out. Maybe nobody's ever tested it to find out. Realistically though, a car heats up so fast because of the greenhouse effect. The RV has some of the same issues but nowhere near as much exposed glass, especially if I put all the covers on and reflectex and whatnot. I just don't see it going from 80 to up over 100 in faster than an hour. Maybe I'm dead wrong on that, and I wouldn't rely on my assumption with my dog's life on the line, but I know enough about the physics involved to say that the temperature change can't happen instantaneously and will take some time.

[marjoa]

Originally Posted by CoachDitka

Nobody has given me an answer on just how fast the coach heats up if the power goes out.

the casinos have sophisticated grids and their own production capability to make sure that they are delivering powers to the guest areas and I would assume the RV park is no different.

Well, we’re not scientists or risk management specialists with supporting charts, graphs and other supporting data. And those that think they are scientists and drag some of these threads out into the stratosphere, drives me nuts. To me it’s plain ol’ common sense.

Most folks who own RV's that go to AZ—and they're are 100's of 1000's of them camp out on the desert floor IN THE WINTER with none of these problems. But when it starts to heat up in the spring, most either leave or GO UP...up to higher elevations. There's a reason for this. This is not my opinion. There are many folks on youtube who have been doing this for years that can attest to the harshness of the low altitude summer heat in the desert. It's brutal plain and simple.

No ill will towards you or anybody else for that matter—but for real—it’s your call. But for me and my household, it's all about realistic living conditions and other available options to achieve the goal. It seems to me you are determined to go and execute your plan, put your trust in this casino power supply, being convinced everything will be A-OK, all other possible hazards have a very low percentage of happening and all your bases should be covered. It's the desert! No further discussion is really necessary IMO. You made a post and asked for answers and opinions. And that’s what you got…4 pages of them.

I still go back to what you call "worst case" scenario in Post# 1…UP my friend, UP. But you don't want to drive the extra distance so case closed...right?

I loved the closing sentence of Post# 14. Pretty much sums it up for me.
"The whole idea of an RV is to be somewhere where it is nice outside"
I love that.

In closing, if you planned to go to AZ and work everyday, I think you would of been better served with planning on other housing plans than an RV. Again, it's the desert.

Let us know how it all—truly worked out—say in late Sept. or early Oct. Would love to read that update. Who knows right?

Good luck my friend.

[winniman]

We have went to Arizona from Ontario the last two winters. I met lots of local types in the rv parks. I asked one of them how hot it gets there in the summer. Their reply was, too hot. They said they were sandbirds. They call us snowbirds because we go south in the winter. They said sandbirds did the opposite. They go north in the summer because of the heat. This particular couple said they go to Minnesota for the summer, then return in the winter. I didn't know us snowbirds had southern cousins.

[CoachDitka]

Originally Posted by marjoa

Most folks who own RV's that go to AZ

I guess this is my problem. I didn't decide to live in an RV to do what everyone else does.

I don't have a choice but to be in Las Vegas this summer. Whether I will be in the coach or not is yet to be determined. The purpose of asking a forum 3 months ahead of time is to be prepared to figure out what my options really are.

You say I got 4 pages of answers but that's not really true. What I got was a lot of parroting from people that didn't even read what I was planning and what my thought process was. That's not really helpful.

I can't really parse out the meaning of your third paragraph but it seems like you think none of this will work. I've never disagreed but all I've asked is why it won't work so that we can think if there's any work around.

Everyone that is saying it won't work seems to be completely ignoring that: 1) I plan to have an extra A/C to increase the cooling capacity, 2) I have a reliable power source that isn't some low-budget RV park, it's a casino and if they had a power outage it would be on the news, 3) it's possible to monitor the coach remotely and be there within 15 minutes.

Multiple people basically accused me of trying to kill my dog just for asking why these safeguards wouldn't work. Nobody actually answered as to why I would have problems.

I wanted to be on these boards cause I thought I might find some interesting conversation and help working through any problems with the Coach. I'd love to report back to you all in September how it worked out, but right now I'm finding that all of these boards are nothing more than a bunch of old cranks that want to complain about Thor. If all you people want to do is say "it won't work" instead of explaining why then I doubt I'll still be here to report back.

I get that you think it won't work. I'm only asking why. Your condescension is as unnecessary as it is unhelpful. Saying "it's plain ol' common sense" is not really adding to the conversation. The reasons there are four pages of non-answers is because everyone wants to respond for the sake of responding and their comments, like yours, amount to "it's hot...so a/c won't work."

[Cat]

Well, I think you have ignore the sky is falling people. Although power outages are fairly common in the desert due to the thunderstorms. Usually they come back on quickly. My wife and I and our dogs lived in my MH in southern AZ Tucson Phoenix and Yuma in the summers and winters in our motorhomes for five years before I retired. We both worked So I've done it. Not hypothetically did it. Our motorhome would not stay cool when it got to 118 we were 90-95 inside. No matter foil in windows front screen on with bubble wrap, and window awning. Wouldn't stay cool (somebody is going say something was wrong with the AC no there wasn't). We bought a portable AC 2 hose -- it has to be 2 hose 12000 BTU ac. The two roof ac were set to 75f the portable was set to 78f. The portable would run off the electric plug in the MH no problem. I ran a heavy duty extension cord out the window by the 2 hoses from the portable AC directly to the pedestal 20amp plug. This way if the 50 amp breaker on the pedestal blew I would have at least one ac running until I got home.I found the portable AC only needed to run every 20 minutes to maintain the inside temps.
The auto start would be another back up. As an emergency notification I purchased "Temperature alert" this plugged into my laptop at the MH it tied directly in to the WIFI and to the internet. I set the alerts to 85 f for a Hi temp and 65 Low alert. It would email me and text me as many times as I set it up too or as long as the temp was too Hi or to Low. It also sent status report every 30 minutes to let me know it was working.

Portable AC 2 hoses machines do work- not so much single hose or no hose read up on it.
All 3 will work on a MH electrical 50amp service never popped a breaker but did decide to run directly off pedestal.
Find rv lot with as much shade as can get.
A temperature alert of some sort is needed if the worst case happens. Mine worked well there are others.
Auto start would be another backup.

So it can be done safely and very comfortably for everyone. We love our dog and want to take good care of them. Hope that helps, any questions ask me. Safe and cool travels

[jcussen]

Just take a bottle wine or whiskey over to the front office, give them your phone number, and ask them to call you if the power goes out.

[1st-tt2018]

Ok, so would putting solar panels on the roof offer some "shade" as well as backup power?

[twojayhawks]

Coach
You might be getting a lot of "you shouldn't do this" because there are a lot of very experienced RVers on this forum. Experienced RVers that have camped in the desert, camped with pets, etc. I haven't read all 4 pages so I apologize if this is redundant. Question, is the RV park even OK with you leaving a dog in a coach all day unattended? Many don't care for this. Also, there are other, many other possible "events" that could lead to an issue. Breakers in the pedestal you are plugged in sometimes retire- especially at peak times. It's happened to me 3 times in 20 years and no power was available until breaker could be replaced. also AC's just up & fail- even new ones. We travel with dogs & scout out day care all the time. It sounds like it makes total sense for you to utilize your RV while working in LV for the summer. If it were me I would treat the dog to day care & you'll have no worries.

[CoachDitka]

Originally Posted by jcussen

Just take a bottle wine or whiskey over to the front office, give them your phone number, and ask them to call you if the power goes out.

This is kind of what I'm thinking. They have security that make rounds very frequently, maybe every half an hour or even more frequently. I'm here all the time. How hard is it to just talk to these guys, let them know what's up, and ask for a phone call. I stay here enough that I don't mind taking care of them with a tip for each up front whether that's cash or booze or whatever.

Originally Posted by 1st-tt2018

Ok, so would putting solar panels on the roof offer some "shade" as well as backup power?

Rooftop solar panels have some problems. For one, they need airflow underneath to keep cool enough to work at max efficiency. They also just don't provide enough energy to power a single air conditioner. What I have thought would be a good idea, would be a freestanding structure to provide shade for the RV that has solar panels all across the top.

Originally Posted by Cat

Well, I think you have ignore the sky is falling people. Although power outages are fairly common in the desert due to the thunderstorms. Usually they come back on quickly. My wife and I and our dogs lived in my MH in southern AZ Tucson Phoenix and Yuma in the summers and winters in our motorhomes for five years before I retired. We both worked So I've done it. Not hypothetically did it. Our motorhome would not stay cool when it got to 118 we were 90-95 inside. No matter foil in windows front screen on with bubble wrap, and window awning. Wouldn't stay cool (somebody is going say something was wrong with the AC no there wasn't). We bought a portable AC 2 hose -- it has to be 2 hose 12000 BTU ac. The two roof ac were set to 75f the portable was set to 78f. The portable would run off the electric plug in the MH no problem. I ran a heavy duty extension cord out the window by the 2 hoses from the portable AC directly to the pedestal 20amp plug. This way if the 50 amp breaker on the pedestal blew I would have at least one ac running until I got home.I found the portable AC only needed to run every 20 minutes to maintain the inside temps.
The auto start would be another back up. As an emergency notification I purchased "Temperature alert" this plugged into my laptop at the MH it tied directly in to the WIFI and to the internet. I set the alerts to 85 f for a Hi temp and 65 Low alert. It would email me and text me as many times as I set it up too or as long as the temp was too Hi or to Low. It also sent status report every 30 minutes to let me know it was working.

Portable AC 2 hoses machines do work- not so much single hose or no hose read up on it.
All 3 will work on a MH electrical 50amp service never popped a breaker but did decide to run directly off pedestal.
Find rv lot with as much shade as can get.
A temperature alert of some sort is needed if the worst case happens. Mine worked well there are others.
Auto start would be another backup.

So it can be done safely and very comfortably for everyone. We love our dog and want to take good care of them. Hope that helps, any questions ask me. Safe and cool travels

Sounds good. Thanks for all your help. Glad to hear it can be done, with the proper safeguards and redundancies in place. Whether those are worth the effort is a different question of course. I think my plan will be to shop around for RV parks and see where I can maybe get some shade and also where I can develop a good relationship with the park and can count on them to call me if there's any kind of outage or reason for concern. Add a monitoring system to that, and working from home and stopping home for lunch on the hottest days, and maybe it will work. I guess it all just depends on whether or not the three A/Cs will be able to actually cool this coach. We will see. This is whole thing is only a backup plan anyway so we will see what happens with Plan A.

Originally Posted by twojayhawks

Coach
You might be getting a lot of "you shouldn't do this" because there are a lot of very experienced RVers on this forum. Experienced RVers that have camped in the desert, camped with pets, etc. I haven't read all 4 pages...

Dude wtf

[DGundy]

I made the mistake of running my single unit on a 15 amp circuit and burnt it out.

[AE Wanderer]

We were in Ridgecrest, CA, last summer for 3 weeks. The summer heat was unbearable 112-116 degrees. Our 42' motorhome has 3 AC units and they only lowered inside temp 7 degrees from outside. We bought a roll of Reflectix at Home Depot and cut for each window. What a difference it made! Cooled the motorhome 24 degrees below outside temp. No, I do not work for Reflectix, but the product is good.

[CoachDitka]

Originally Posted by AE Wanderer

We were in Ridgecrest, CA, last summer for 3 weeks. The summer heat was unbearable 112-116 degrees. Our 42' motorhome has 3 AC units and they only lowered inside temp 7 degrees from outside. We bought a roll of Reflectix at Home Depot and cut for each window. What a difference it made! Cooled the motorhome 24 degrees below outside temp. No, I do not work for Reflectix, but the product is good.

Wow that's good to know! I've heard good things so plan to get some ASAP. 24 degrees below outside is still not gonna cut it though :(

Just can't believe that these units are that inefficient and poorly insulated.

What year is your coach and how many BTUs were your A/Cs rated for? Just curious. And were you in direct sun or did you have any shade?

[AE Wanderer]

Originally Posted by CoachDitka

Wow that's good to know! I've heard good things so plan to get some ASAP. 24 degrees below outside is still not gonna cut it though :(

Just can't believe that these units are that inefficient and poorly insulated.

What year is your coach and how many BTUs were your A/Cs rated for? Just curious. And were you in direct sun or did you have any shade?

Have a 2008 American Eagle. 3 AC units at 15K each. The insulation in our coach is better than most. I do not remember the R values, but when looking it was higher than alot of new coaches. Heat was only a problem in late afternoon. About 4-7. No shade. We were at China Lake.