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Old 03-02-2014, 04:39 PM   #57
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I have owned a diesel pickup for 10 years. I was in ecstasy when I found diesel one time that was 25 cents a gallon more than gas. I usually see it somewhere on average of 79 cents a gallon more than gas. I think the worst I have seen was 1.25 a gallon more than gas. I do not think there is any doubt that diesel is going to cost more than gas.

I do not believe there is any doubt that diesels cost more to maintain. Buy a gasonline fuel filter then buy a diesel fuel filter. and my motor home has two fuel filters. Oil Filters are quite a bit more for a diesel as well as the quantity of oil used in the change. I do not think there is any argument that can be made where gas and diesel engines are even close to being equal in cost.


Fuel Mileage is interesting. I have seen so many people quote the mileage on their diesels that I am going to have the shop check to see what is wrong with my mileage on my DP when I take it I next week. I am not seeing the kind of numbers you guys are seeing. The numbers on gas coaches are nothing short of amazing. I had my 1 ton pickup motor rebuilt with an RV cam so it Is essentially the same thing as an RV gas engine. Some of these people are claiming that they have a gas motor home which is several times heavier than my truck was and they are pulling another vehicle with it. These people claim to get 50 per cent better gas mileage than I got with my my truck going down the road empty not towing anything. I wished I still had that truck so I could take it to the shop and see what was wrong with it since obviously my mileage must have been horrible in comparison.


To the OP. When you are doing calculations on trips use the lowest fuel mileage figures you read on here. If you can get better mileage on what you buy then that is a plus. It is a lot better to get better mileage and spend less than you calculated than to spend more than you calculated.

I have never owned a gas unit so I can not tell you what it was like to drive I test drove a few of them and did not like them but that is a personal thing. I will say that there are a lot of posts on RV forums where people with gas units talk about what they have done to improve the driving of their gas units. That is the sum total of my knowledge about gas units. My coach has an independent front suspension which I have read seems to drive better again I don't know it is the only coach I have driven long distances in so it is all I know.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:34 AM   #58
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" gas coaches going up hills with snails and tortoises passing them by while the engine is screaming like a banshee. Or that if a semi passes them or a small crosswind strikes them they get blown off the side of the road unless you put thousands of dollars into aftermarket devices to allow you to drive them safely. None of this is true"
Don't want to start anything but your experience with a gasser is totally different than ours. All the above statements ARE TRUE with us anyway.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:50 AM   #59
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I have driven a couple of gassers that were less than desirable, but I also drove a DP from Los Angeles to Las Vegas that tried to kill me. It was the most frightening coach I have ever driven, so there are bad chassis matted to wrong size tires and suspension systems. These combos are engineering screw-ups that simply don't work very well but the engine isn't the determining factor of the ride quality, the chassis, suspension components and tires are.

I have to ask with the greatest deference, if the coach was as bad as you say, than why did you buy it in the first place?
Dumb mistake never drove it except on a test drive. Please don't infer I lied about our true experiences. Our model had a great floor plan which was great to live in when we set up. On the road it was a white knuckle nightmare, all over the road in the wind and 18 wheeler passing. Each people has their preferences and the unit you have may be wonderful but for us there will never be another gasser. All IMHO of course.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:58 AM   #60
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BTW we use gasbuddy.com for fuel prices. A good site to tell you in your area what the average and lowest prices are.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:22 AM   #61
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I can be very cheap. I understand people that have the various apps or website locations that give you cheaper fuel prices. Personally I usually get fuel when I need to go to the bathroom. Or if I have stopped for the night when I am getting on the road again. It is usually not worth all the trouble hunting for the fuel station with the cheapest price. My coach has a 150 gallon tank. If it were totally empty and there was a 10 cent a gallon difference that would only be 15.00 since I usually have to go to the bathroom long before I reach a half a tank it is less than 15.00 To me not worth the effort of finding the cheaper station.

Remember the old adage a boat is a hole in the water you throw money into. They do not call DP land yachts for nothing. If 15 or 20 dollars is going to break you probably not the best activity to get into.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:35 AM   #62
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I agree about the .10 cents a gallon not being worth going out of your way for.
For me it's not about the price as much as it is the principal.
I want my hand to be the only one in my pocket!
I always fill up at the end of the day on our way to our overnight stop.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:02 PM   #63
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Don't want to start anything but your experience with a gasser is totally different than ours. All the above statements ARE TRUE with us anyway.
What I was trying to point out was that handling has nothing to do with the type of fuel your motor runs on. If you had driven the diesel coach I referred to then you could just as easily be saying the same things about diesel's.

In my mind it's important to compare average's rather than aberrations and by comparing a poorly engineered gasser to a nicely engineered DP shows a little bias IMHO. Instead I suggest we take the "average" gasser and compare it to the "average" DP and I think we will all still agree that the DP gives a much better ride, handles better and is less prone to crosswinds than the average gasser. But that doesn't mean that the average gasser is a under-powered, ready to tip over at the slightest wind, rolling death trap. If that were true insurance rates would be sky high (they're not) and gas units sales wouldn't be holding steady at over 2X's that of DP (according to the RVIA).

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Old 03-03-2014, 12:31 PM   #64
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I just wanted to thank all you guys again for all the input on this. I am amazed at how much information as been shared. Sometimes it may be more opinion that fact, but that is ok, as I want both. I am not afraid to buy a higher mileage coach IF it is a quality rig, meaning it will be better made. I would buy a used Cadillac rather than a new ford, etc. Just my opinion. I really do like the DP Endeavor setup, my favorite is the Country Coach, but it is too rich for my blood. Again, thanks for all the input, I look forward to hearing more. What a great bunch of people on this site. ...Jim
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:34 PM   #65
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Heey KOOP, Torque is dependent on, turbo boost, compression and size of piston, head clearance and strength of rods and head bolts to withstand it. Also from Caterpillar
The 3406 is a six-cylinder, four-stroke cycle, diesel engine. This engine's volume is 14.64 liters. The cylinder bore of the engine has a diameter of 5.4 inches, and its stroke piston moves a total of 6.5 inches. This engine's aspiration is intercooled/turbocharged. This means that induction is forced by a process that raises the density of the air inside the chamber. This increases performance capabilities, such as torque and horsepower. The dry weight of this engine is 2,961 pounds. The dry weight reflects the weight of the engine with no fuel and none of the necessary fluids. Also, if you go on trucking forums, most truck owners have either heard or believe CAT measures HP at the wehels. Prove me wrong and I will apoligize for being misleading.
Banks Power | Why Diesels Make So Much Torque
IF you put a propane injection system system on a diesel will it add torque or horsepower?

Specific Fuel Consumption for a trubo intercoolde diesel is .36lb/hp/hr Turbocharged & Intercooled Diesel0.36 lb/hp.h (0.22 kg/kWh) What isn't true about that. It's a scientific fact.Turbocharged & Intercooled Diesel0.36 lb/hp.h (0.22 kg/kWh)Don't call me misleading please.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:08 PM   #66
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I won't say one is better than the other, but you should really spend just a few hours looking at all the posts having to with problems/maint. Don't look Diesel vs. Gas...just go through the technical issues through the forums. You'll see, and then be able to make up your mind. Happy hunting!!
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:16 PM   #67
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Heey KOOP, Torque is dependent on, turbo boost, compression and size of piston, head clearance and strength of rods and head bolts to withstand it. Also from Caterpillar The 3406 is a six-cylinder, four-stroke cycle, diesel engine. This engine's volume is 14.64 liters. The cylinder bore of the engine has a diameter of 5.4 inches, and its stroke piston moves a total of 6.5 inches. This engine's aspiration is intercooled/turbocharged. This means that induction is forced by a process that raises the density of the air inside the chamber. This increases performance capabilities, such as torque and horsepower. The dry weight of this engine is 2,961 pounds. The dry weight reflects the weight of the engine with no fuel and none of the necessary fluids. Also, if you go on trucking forums, most truck owners have either heard or believe CAT measures HP at the wehels. Prove me wrong and I will apoligize for being misleading. Banks Power | Why Diesels Make So Much Torque IF you put a propane injection system system on a diesel will it add torque or horsepower? Specific Fuel Consumption for a trubo intercoolde diesel is .36lb/hp/hr Turbocharged & Intercooled Diesel0.36 lb/hp.h (0.22 kg/kWh) What isn't true about that. It's a scientific fact.Turbocharged & Intercooled Diesel0.36 lb/hp.h (0.22 kg/kWh)Don't call me misleading please.
Both Cat and Cummins state that their engine ratings are based on SAE1995 procedures this standard lays out a complete detailed list of standards. This was established to level the field for all manufacturers and to allow for the fact that a number of systems that impact performance are not from the engine manufacturers but the truck/chassis builders. Intake plumbing , CAC, exhaust, cooling package are all by others. This standard is on a Dyno and specifies driven equipment, atmospheric pressure, temperature among other criteria.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:12 PM   #68
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Both Cat and Cummins state that their engine ratings are based on SAE1995 procedures this standard lays out a complete detailed list of standards. This was established to level the field for all manufacturers and to allow for the fact that a number of systems that impact performance are not from the engine manufacturers but the truck/chassis builders. Intake plumbing , CAC, exhaust, cooling package are all by others. This standard is on a Dyno and specifies driven equipment, atmospheric pressure, temperature among other criteria.
Thanks Steve.

Passin Thru, thanks for the info. I don't want to beat my chest, but allow me to add my qualification. I'm retired from the auto industry. I worked in the Technical Service and Service and Quality groups of a major European manufacturer. I was a long time SAE member and also held ASE Master status for more than twenty years. I have a pretty good understanding of engine specifications and how things work.

I stand by my comment regarding compression ratios in turbo-charged engines.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:48 PM   #69
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Nobody has mentioned that the HR Endeavor is considered a pretty darn good value by almost all owners? Most are fairly well equipped, and the roof design, with any maintenance at all, keeps the coach pretty dry. Not something you can say about some of the other coaches in this size, age, and price range.

Also, when considering "adequate" power, it's worth noting that this coach is maybe several thousand pounds lighter than others due to it's aluminum structure above it's floor line (about 24k loaded, vs. the norm at something in the high 20's or low 30's). I'll add that the 275hp Cat in ours has demonstrated plenty of power in all situations encountered so far - while pulling a Honda CRV. This includes plenty of time spent in the hills and mountains on both sides of the country. 8-8.5mpg the norm. Unusual conditions may have it down to 7.5, or as high as 10mpg. That's at 65mph, moving/blending in with truck traffic whenever possible.
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:37 PM   #70
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Fore the last 8 years I worked as maintenance mechanic. twice I changed out a 250 HP Cat 3208 engine. This engine was on a piece of mobile equipment. The engine drove 3 Large Hydraulic pumps. These engines were CAT rebuilds and had a plate stating the 250 HP power level. Seeing how you can buy CAT engines over the counter without a vehicle and you can specify a HP level when doing so, how do they go about coming up with a @ the wheels HP number?
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