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Old 03-06-2014, 11:19 PM   #85
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I don't care about floorplan. You can find a good floorplan in either. The info given on the gasses and saying they drive 6000 miles a year. Wow that is about one trip out to visit the grandkids. Virginia to Spokane Washington is about 2500 miles and I will usually take a little detour on the way home. I put about 30k miles a year on. I have both a gas motorhome and a DP. The gas has had less repairs but it is newer and gets less use. It has about 38k on it. The Foretravel gas 151,200 on it. The gas would never hold up to that without either an engine or a transmission or both. You are going to put miles on back and forth and driving in the mountains has mist people worried about going up. That us not the problem, but rather going down in a controlled and easy manner. There the DP shines and the generator is a heavy duty item with a duty cycle of 30,000 hours. In the summer I turn mine on as I come out of the garage and turn it off when I arrive at my destination. That might be 4 days constant running. It comes down to how you will use it and what is important. I do not care either way and have two so I pick the right unit for the job. Oh if I count both the gas and the DPs I am over 400,000 miles. I have driven in snow and rain and hail and sub zero and 110 degrees.
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:18 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by kiethco View Post
I just bought this baby. It's my 4th coach and I'm soooooo looking forward to my first diesel. I too thought the HR Endeavor was a great value and love the layout. On a lot of slide out equipped units you lose so much when driving. The HR is designed to minimize this. (shallower but still efficient slide)
I constantly have to remind people that none of my hobbies make sense, planes, boats, RV's, they're all horrible dino killers. For me if you have to ask how much fuel is gonna cost, you may not want to use this form of lifestyle.
One nice feature about my 1998 Endeavor is at 34', it fits next to my house saving $150.00 a month in storage fees and I can tinker whenever I want.
The zen art of motorhome tinkering is priceless and you can't put a price on that! Let's hit the road folks, adventure awaits!
p.s., the former owner said he got a solid 9.5, sometimes slightly better while towing the toad pictured. 275 ISB, 6 speed Allison
you are going to be thrilled with that coach I had its younger sister the 36 pbs Ambassador with the 260 and 5 speed Alison , it was fine and Im not sure but it could have actually made fuel lol even towing the car.

Enjoy

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Old 03-07-2014, 08:32 AM   #87
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A V-10 getting 10mpg.....now that's funny!
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:41 PM   #88
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I know why the math does not add up for you, because you cooked the math to make your point. Have not heard of anyone getting less than 8 MPG, with the latest Ford V10, and most are claiming 10MPG.

Why dont you use real math?
100 Gal @ 3.08 = $308 @ 8MPG= 800 miles ($.385 per mile)
100 Gal @ 3.65 = $365 @ 9.4 = 940 miles ($.3882 per mile)
Funny how that works out, they are the same, and I used 8mpg, what happens if I pug in 9 or 10 mpg? Rut Roo Shaggy.
Also funny how you forgot to plug in the price of UREA, think that adds about $.08/gallon?

But wait there is more, LOL. Gas oil change vs Diesel oil change? I dont know the answer here, but guessing $50 vs $200? My oil change was actually $36 last time I had it done, but did not want to cook the math to make my point.

The cheapest Diesel rig on market right now is Thor Plazzio, that is $50K more than the equivilant/identical Gas rig. So lets amortize that out over 10 years, that is a $5K/year price difference. So basically you could drive anywhere you wanted for free in your gas rig every year and still be less than the equivilent Diesel rig.

Oh i know, you take a big hit when you sell your gas rig vs a diesel. Wrong! I could sell my rig right now for exactly what I paid for it, but even if I had to take a $5K loss, I would still be money ahead. I have spoken to 4 people now that have the exact same rig as me, all of them said when the sold their rig, its sold in less than 2 days, with the best being in 2 hours.

I have been looking for a used gas rig to replace mine, and every single one that I have looked at is holding its value too well IMO. Have not looked at any diesel rigs, so can't speak to them. Will probably end up buying new again because the difference between new and used right now is so small that it makes better sense to buy new right now.

Just don't get why the Diesel guys always have to look down their noses at the Gas guys. Buy what makes you feel good or what you can afford.

I get that Diesels offer benefits that Gas can't, but there is no way the math will ever work, so please don't use that agrument. No one ever wears out their motor and very few keep their rigs more than 10 years, so the whole logevity issue is just fatasy. Diesel has more HP & TQ absolutly, no question about it. Does it go up the hill faster, not sure, is it quieter doing so, yes.

I am all for spirited debate so here it goes,

There are no 38 or 40 foot gas coaches getting 10 mpg, period, doesn't happen, and they definitely are not pulling a trailer nevermind a dolly and another 4K in car behind them, had one, it doesn't happen.

Now I stand corrected on my earlier comment on the price difference between fuel,

As far as maintenance, my motor takes I think about 26 liters of rotella, about $50 - 60 bucks a pail, the filter from filter barn is around $30.00 , I actually go to the quick lube and back the coach in, they charge same labour as a pick up truck, and I get greased too, but and its a big but, I change her oil once a year cause they say to, not cause the oil is even remotely nears it life cycle or because the filter is anywhere needing to be changed after the whoping 10K a year I might do, but I do it, that's two oil changes in a gas powered rig if you care about your engine at all, so the maintenance thing is a fallacy, simple as that, air brakes and service ya they need to be done too, but Ill never and I mean never replace the drums or the shoes,

Now on the diesel advantages, and make no mistake if I could do this cheaper, easier I would but there are things I want or the wife tells me I want and need, that I cant get in a gas coach, 10K trailer hauling, 22.5 tires, over 40' and tag axle, rock solid on the highway AND THEY ARE, two speed jake brake, air brakes, 7500 diesel genny, runs for an hour on 1 liter of fuel, (wish it was 10K) not sure but around 1300 lbs of torque in my 8.9 isl, big Allison tranny, and this is a big one, aqua hot, once you have it you will never go without, hot water heat is quiet and awesome, endless showers, as far as I know you need to have diesel for aqua hot, there are the added benefits of rear engine, front generator, I have air suspension and air levelling, not sure if either of those options are available on gasoline powered rigs,

So its not necessarily about the fuel you burn as much as what you want in a coach.

Moxy
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Old 03-07-2014, 04:04 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Moxy View Post
I am all for spirited debate so here it goes, There are no 38 or 40 foot gas coaches getting 10 mpg, period, doesn't happen, and they definitely are not pulling a trailer nevermind a dolly and another 4K in car behind them, had one, it doesn't happen. Now I stand corrected on my earlier comment on the price difference between fuel, As far as maintenance, my motor takes I think about 26 liters of rotella, about $50 - 60 bucks a pail, the filter from filter barn is around $30.00 , I actually go to the quick lube and back the coach in, they charge same labour as a pick up truck, and I get greased too, but and its a big but, I change her oil once a year cause they say to, not cause the oil is even remotely nears it life cycle or because the filter is anywhere needing to be changed after the whoping 10K a year I might do, but I do it, that's two oil changes in a gas powered rig if you care about your engine at all, so the maintenance thing is a fallacy, simple as that, air brakes and service ya they need to be done too, but Ill never and I mean never replace the drums or the shoes, Now on the diesel advantages, and make no mistake if I could do this cheaper, easier I would but there are things I want or the wife tells me I want and need, that I cant get in a gas coach, 10K trailer hauling, 22.5 tires, over 40' and tag axle, rock solid on the highway AND THEY ARE, two speed jake brake, air brakes, 7500 diesel genny, runs for an hour on 1 liter of fuel, (wish it was 10K) not sure but around 1300 lbs of torque in my 8.9 isl, big Allison tranny, and this is a big one, aqua hot, once you have it you will never go without, hot water heat is quiet and awesome, endless showers, as far as I know you need to have diesel for aqua hot, there are the added benefits of rear engine, front generator, I have air suspension and air levelling, not sure if either of those options are available on gasoline powered rigs, So its not necessarily about the fuel you burn as much as what you want in a coach. Moxy
Can't argue with any of that Moxy. When you're right you're right. There is a LP AquaHot available now but that's not something I could settle for after living with a diesel fired AQ for 7 years now.

Safe travels.
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:01 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by dubdub07 View Post
A V-10 getting 10mpg.....now that's funny!
have to admit I found it quite humourous myself, my BB ford in relatively light bounder got way way over 6 mpg, liked 6.5, was afraid to pull the car might not make it between gas stations lol, my current coach is twice as heavy almost 10 feet longer with one more slide and still gets almost 50 percent better mpg towing 6K in car, dolly and bike. just sayin
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:35 PM   #91
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This topic is getting beaten to death. The answer is pretty simple. All things considered:

A Gasser is cheaper to buy, cheaper to fill up, cheaper to service, more demanding to drive, worse mileage, less power, noisier, cheaper over the short term.

A Diesel is more expensive to buy, more expensive to fill up, more expensive to service, easier to drive, better mileage, more power, quieter, cheaper over the long term.

Here's real world example:

My old GMC Yukon Denali (6.2 liter 340 hp, 350 lbs torque) got 7~8 mpg pulling my 8K lb trailer. It pulled pretty good, but the 5 speed trans was constantly downshifting over small grades, sometimes down to 3rd, and then the motor was really screaming.

My replacement Dodge Cummins diesel (5.9 Liter 340 hp, 615 lbs torque) got 11~12 mpg at the same speed and unless the grade got over 6% or so, it never downshifted, EVER. The difference was astounding, better mileage, calmer and quieter drive l& ess overall cost. Oh, and my 6.7 liter Cummins in my Allegro RED just got 10.1 MGP down to Key West and back.

So if you are going to use it for a few thousand miles a year, then gas might be the better alternative if you are on a tight budget. For over 8~10K miles a year, gas can't touch a diesel in any way.
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:52 PM   #92
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Wink

I've been to the gas station where that sign is. That's for two gallons of diesel!
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:21 AM   #93
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DEF is Diesel Exhaust Fluid. and no I didn't make that up. There really is such a thing. It is a fluid that is injected into the exh during a time that the engine computer alters it injector time slightly to make some extra exh heat and the heat and this fluid kill much of the pollutants.
.
There are two types of ways an engine will go into regen, one there is an injector in the exhaust that sprays raw diesel into the exhaust to increase exhaust temps or the PCM will spray fuel into the combustion chamber during the exhaust stroke. Regen and DEF fluid injection are two different functions.

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These pollutants are stored in the DPF (Diesel particulate filter) and the extra heat is supposed to burn them off.
Ever see a newer (07 & newer) OTR truck or school bus with a lot of white smoke just running down the road like nothing is wrong? 99% chance it has a cracked DPF screen (Very high dollar)
If you run the DEF tank dry when the DPF is full you might cause the exh temp to rise so the computer is programmed to de-rate the power till you put some DEF in the tank so it can "complete the cleanse"

on the school buses we have the DEF tank only needed filled every 4-8K miles.
DEF does not affect DPF at all. In many cases the DEF is injected after the DPF cleaning. DPF run extremely hot during regen (well over 1000F) and is very hard damage from heat. A cracked DPF will have normal black smoke from a diesel out the exhaust pipe. A typical cracked DPF test is to hold a white rag over the exhaust and rev the engine a few times and look for black spots. If you do (also based on that manufactures specs) the DPF is cracked. DEF is usually a constant/intermitant trickle of fluid into the exhaust to get rid of the NOx based on the NOx level in the system that is monitored by the NOx sensor.

White smoke can be from cold combustion temps, EGR issues, coolant, cold outside temps where you can see the exhaust and a few other possible scenarios.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:23 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Arizona View Post
I've been to the gas station where that sign is. That's for two gallons of diesel!

LMAO
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:50 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by DegoRed View Post
I know why the math does not add up for you, because you cooked the math to make your point. Have not heard of anyone getting less than 8 MPG, with the latest Ford V10, and most are claiming 10MPG.

Why dont you use real math?
100 Gal @ 3.08 = $308 @ 8MPG= 800 miles ($.385 per mile)
100 Gal @ 3.65 = $365 @ 9.4 = 940 miles ($.3882 per mile)
Funny how that works out, they are the same, and I used 8mpg, what happens if I pug in 9 or 10 mpg? Rut Roo Shaggy.
Also funny how you forgot to plug in the price of UREA, think that adds about $.08/gallon?

But wait there is more, LOL. Gas oil change vs Diesel oil change? I dont know the answer here, but guessing $50 vs $200? My oil change was actually $36 last time I had it done, but did not want to cook the math to make my point.

The cheapest Diesel rig on market right now is Thor Plazzio, that is $50K more than the equivilant/identical Gas rig. So lets amortize that out over 10 years, that is a $5K/year price difference. So basically you could drive anywhere you wanted for free in your gas rig every year and still be less than the equivilent Diesel rig.

Oh i know, you take a big hit when you sell your gas rig vs a diesel. Wrong! I could sell my rig right now for exactly what I paid for it, but even if I had to take a $5K loss, I would still be money ahead. I have spoken to 4 people now that have the exact same rig as me, all of them said when the sold their rig, its sold in less than 2 days, with the best being in 2 hours.

I have been looking for a used gas rig to replace mine, and every single one that I have looked at is holding its value too well IMO. Have not looked at any diesel rigs, so can't speak to them. Will probably end up buying new again because the difference between new and used right now is so small that it makes better sense to buy new right now.

Just don't get why the Diesel guys always have to look down their noses at the Gas guys. Buy what makes you feel good or what you can afford.

I get that Diesels offer benefits that Gas can't, but there is no way the math will ever work, so please don't use that agrument. No one ever wears out their motor and very few keep their rigs more than 10 years, so the whole logevity issue is just fatasy. Diesel has more HP & TQ absolutly, no question about it. Does it go up the hill faster, not sure, is it quieter doing so, yes.
Maybe for a new unit but here's my real math in a 2008 v10 v2 2008 DP
100 gal @ 3.15 locally = $315 @ 6 mpg = 600 miles ( $.525 per mile)
100 gal @ 3.65 locally = $365 @ 8.5 mpg = 850 miles ( $.429 per mile)
Not exactly equal huh. Does the oil change cost more yes but @ 15,000 miles not 5,000. Do we care about this comparison NO. We love our DP and would never go back to a gasser. But that's just us. If you really think a gas unit will hold it's value like a diesel check NADA. Right off they take off for mileage on a gas unit NOT on a diesel. Check the prices then tell me about holding their value none do but DP more than gas every time.
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Old 03-08-2014, 07:58 AM   #96
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by the way if you test the oil and change the filter you can go even further on an oil change. I decided it was cheap insurance to change the oil. The aquahot is the best.
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Old 03-08-2014, 08:47 AM   #97
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Hi, new member. I am researching gas vs diesel, have my eye on a 37' Holiday Rambler Endeavor with a Cummins ISB Turbo Diesel Power (275 Horse Power). I have no experience with diesel, but have owned 3 different class A gas rigs.
Questions: is 275 HP enough? what MPG is normal? Its a 99 with 68k miles. Thanks, Jim.
Ouestion is...are you sure you want to buy a 15+ year old MH? I hope you get a deal on the price ($25K-$30K).

The larger heaver MH's need to be diesel with 350hp+660tq+.
I like my newer 3 valve V-10's and pass most smaller diesels up the grades.
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:44 AM   #98
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The math doesn't add up for me. 3.08G/3.65D pays off big time for me. that is 18.6% more. If mine was gas it would get 6MPG instead I get 9.4-10MPG.
6MPG X 1.57 = 9.42MPG That is 57% more
3.08 X 1.57 = $4.835 That the same 57%

look at is this way
100 Gal @ 3.08 = $308 @ 6MPG= 600 miles ($.5133 per mile)
100 Gal @ 3.65 = $365 @ 9.4 = 940 miles ($.3882 per mile)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DegoRed View Post
I know why the math does not add up for you, because you cooked the math to make your point. Have not heard of anyone getting less than 8 MPG, with the latest Ford V10, and most are claiming 10MPG.
I didn't cook the math those are the numbers from the type of vehicle I have.
What you see in the 9.4MPG number I posted was the worst MPG I have gotten in 3 years of 4000 miles each year.
I didn't include my MPG test without the jeep on the trailer. In 2011 when I had my higher gears and shorter tires installed I drove from Ashland KY to Grayson Ky by way of interstate at 65MPH (and less on the hills)and back refilled at the same station/same pump.
50 miles / 4.2 gallons = 11.7MPG I was shocked to say the least. I didn't think it would be fair to include these numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DegoRed View Post
Why dont you use real math?
100 Gal @ 3.08 = $308 @ 8MPG= 800 miles ($.385 per mile)
100 Gal @ 3.65 = $365 @ 9.4 = 940 miles ($.3882 per mile)
Funny how that works out, they are the same, and I used 8mpg, what happens if I pug in 9 or 10 mpg? Rut Roo Shaggy.
Also funny how you forgot to plug in the price of UREA, think that adds about $.08/gallon?
Mine doesn't use Urea and ones that do are not in my price range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DegoRed View Post
But wait there is more, LOL. Gas oil change vs Diesel oil change? I dont know the answer here, but guessing $50 vs $200? My oil change was actually $36 last time I had it done, but did not want to cook the math to make my point.
Nope My oil change cost is $112.00 but only because I use synthetic oil. I could do it for $50 if I bought cheaper oil.
My post from another thread"
Quote:
So for 3 years of use I have
$240 Batteries (2) group 31 batteries
$449.96 (4) oil changes
$ 38.98 (2) fuel filters
Total $728.94 for 3 year total
[B]I should add there have been NO breakdowns or repairs.[/B
Quote:
Originally Posted by DegoRed View Post
The cheapest Diesel rig on market right now is Thor Plazzio, that is $50K more than the equivilant/identical Gas rig. So lets amortize that out over 10 years, that is a $5K/year price difference. So basically you could drive anywhere you wanted for free in your gas rig every year and still be less than the equivilent Diesel rig.
........
Just don't get why the Diesel guys always have to look down their noses at the Gas guys. Buy what makes you feel good or what you can afford.
I'm sorry if you feel I come off that way but I do Not look down on any one for having a gas powered RV.
I have built My RV Ford less than $8,000. I know I haven't put much in it cosmetics. I live by function over looks. It saves me money so I can stay longer and see more on my travels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DegoRed View Post
I get that Diesels offer benefits that Gas can't, but there is no way the math will ever work, so please don't use that agrument. No one ever wears out their motor and very few keep their rigs more than 10 years, so the whole logevity issue is just fatasy. Diesel has more HP & TQ absolutly, no question about it. Does it go up the hill faster, not sure, is it quieter doing so, yes.
The Math does work for many of us.
If Gas engines were cheaper to run per mile than diesels Every 18 wheel OTR trucks would be running them.
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