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Old 01-17-2014, 03:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by milasman View Post
Ok, then fill your sink with water and put one hand in, then hold a butter knife in the other and stick it in a non GFCI outlet, let me know if you get shocked or not.

The sink of my motorhome, I wouldnt get shocked, at home thats a different story. In your motorhome what would complete the circuit from the sink full of water to ground. Maybe if you drove a ground rod through your sink to the earth below.

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Old 01-17-2014, 03:15 PM   #16
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To late, you already made the dumb statement. No recovery allowed and you got flamed no matter your experience or education.

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Old 01-17-2014, 03:17 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by hanko View Post
funny that they put GFI's in coaches. nothing you could touch inside the rv could be a possible path to ground, on rubber tires. I can see them on outside plugs, but inside not necessary. I guess the Mfg's are just covering there ass
Wondering if that statement is true when your jacks are down?
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:20 PM   #18
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Heys guys GFI protection is a necessary thing, its good in residential dwellings. My only point was its pretty hard to get shocked inside a motorhome
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:31 PM   #19
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Just looked at my friends journey. He has three GFCI outlets just like ours. One is next to the bathroom sink, another adjacent to the kitchen sink and a 3rd on the curb side wall near the floor which also controls the basement outlets. All have a green light when working and go dark when tested/tripped.
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:24 PM   #20
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The water you get in campgrounds is definitely not purified or deionized water.

There's plenty of minerals, chemicals and ions in the water to conduct electricity. Take a look at the filter screen on your hose or if you have a filter, look at all the crud that accumulates. And it's in the water anyway if you can see it or not. A GFCI shuts off at 4-6 milliamps of current. Death can occur at 10 mA which is the threshold at which you can't let go. The water can still be high resistance and kill you.

It's damn easy to get electrocuted inside an RV. Besides the water, lots of grounded metallic objects inside. Microwave, stove, fridge, toaster, kettle, portable electric heaters, window frames, etc. Even is some appliances don't have a ground to them, if the exterior is metal, it could still become energized under some circumstances.

So the RV industry has got it wrong for decades? That's gotta be a ton of money down the drain. I guess they got some bad info. somewhere. Maybe the NEC and NFPA folks steered them wrong.

It looks to me that section 551 of the NEC clearly specifies GFIs in RVs.:

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Old 01-17-2014, 08:58 PM   #21
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I'm sure your coach was built with gfci's a good place to look first is bathroom outlet. Is it posable a previous owner replaced the gfci outlets with standard outlets. Compare outlets and see if any of them look different color or shape. If they have been changed out I would replace them they are there for a reason. I found two outlets in our coach that we're not in boxes original outlets are one piece units evidently they had failed and someone just wired in a outlet and screwed it to the paneling without boxes. Anything is posable.
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Old 01-18-2014, 07:05 PM   #22
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Download the wiring diagram for your Sunova model - goitasca.com --> owners --> manuals and diagrams --> wiring diagrams

The one I looked at had one GFI in a receptacle below the sink, and the other in the bath wall.
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:40 AM   #23
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Too bad one has to wade through the bs to get a straight answer. Quit it you guys, it's very tiresome.
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by dvmweb View Post
Too bad one has to wade through the bs to get a straight answer. Quit it you guys, it's very tiresome.
You are so right. It is very simple. Eectricity can kill you, especially when combined with stupidity or lack of knowledge. Best bet is to learn it while living - knowing everything in the afterlife isn't all it's cracked up to be...

A good starting place (and there are many others) is The RV Doctor’s Technical Guide to RV Electrical Systems
Part 1: The 120-volt Alternating Current (AC) Systems

Quoted without permission

"The benefit of the GFCI is evident in the fact that it will indeed sense the low-level current leakage that might occur in an alternating current system, lethal current that the circuit breaker may overlook. Low-level current leakage can occur as the result of oxidation, burned wiring or insulation, water intrusion or a simple loose connection. The GFCI employed in the RV will sense and monitor current leakage up to 5-milliamp (.005 of one amp), then it will “interrupt” that circuit by tripping. Here is how it works:

AC current from the power source flows through the hot wire to a load and back to the power source through the neutral wire. In most cases this current flow to and from the load is always equal. Remember, the current alternates between the hot and neutral wires in any given AC circuit. If the current to and from the device is equal, it is said to be balanced. If the GFCI senses an imbalance between the two measurements that
approaches 4 to 6-milliamps, the GFCI will trip, interrupting the circuit at that point. All receptacles downstream of the GFCI on that same circuit (including the GFCI), will now be “dead” or de-energized."

Trip the GFCI off and test all recipticles with a plug in analyzer - they should all be de-energized when in the off position. It has already been stated how little low=level current it takes to do ya in... and this is one of the easiest things to operate and check. Just 2 cents - but really - the rvbookstore.com has tons of stuff to read and learn, the net has lots of free info, and it's all cheaper than paying a tech to teach you. Of couse if you still need assistance - pay the man. Much of the book info is available in eBooks (pdf format) that travel with you. When you don't do things all the time - it's nice to have the pritned / file to refer to.
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:27 PM   #25
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Without discussing the merits of GFCI,

Normal place for GFCI is the bathroom outlet.. OF course some RV makers like to play hide and seek..

They make a circuit breaker that is also a GFCI, look for a TEST button on it.

When I say "Hide and seek"

In a cupboard, under the bed, in the basement and not necessarly anyplace you might find water.

There is a way you might find it.

First remove the spread from the bed or fold it so it is entierly on top of the bed.. Open as many doors as possible and when it's "Dim" (Twilight time) look for the little star (usually red, may be other color) of an indicator, If you find one hit it with the beam of a flashlight and see if it is what you are looking for.. IT IS.. Job done. If not read on.

Get one of the TLT's (three Light Testers) with a GFCI test button, Plug it in in either the kitchen or bathroom and note if the two green indicators come on.> They do,, Good, press the button for a brief (like 1/4 second) period of time.. Do the lights go out? Good, not do the search over and look for the little red tell-tale light that was not there last time. That's it (Also check the breaker box for a tripped one).
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Old 01-20-2014, 10:51 AM   #26
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I realize that does not really need to be said but,

Never assume your coach has all hoses going to faucets as pex. Someone might have had to replace one and decided to use stainless steel lines, Someone might have decided toreplace drain lines with actual pipe.

and for your own and your loved ones sake. If you do not know anything about electricity leave it alone. Take courses, have a friend teach you whatever but until you have some basic knowledge do not mess with it.

I have seen some very experienced people with a lot of knowledge make stupid mistakes and get lucky enough to live through them. ( That would include me)

In the steel mill where I worked our cranes worked off of a +125volt and -125 volt DC supply ( 250 volt potential) Someone bought a radio that ran off of 12 volts for the crane. The electrician that installed it got the bright idea to just make a voltage divider resistor circuit and pick 12 volt off that way. What they did not think about was the case of the radio was attached to one end of the resistor network and the end was at -125vdc so the case had a 125v dc potential to ground. Moral of this story. You never know what kind of brilliant idea someone might have come up with to make something work.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:13 PM   #27
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Thumbs up here is where you may find GFI

Well I think that you should have GFI wherever you have water, dampness, etc.

My 2005 Airstream coach has a GFI breaker in the main breaker panel. That power line services the bathroom, kitchen area and the outside receptacle. may also supply power to the Fridge. ( just can't remember). So no gfi outlets can be seen.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:32 PM   #28
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I hope I am not too late for the OP after all of the bs.

We have had a problem finding the reset outlet in two different MHs. One time it was inside a cabinet in front over the passenger's seat. Who would have ever predicted that. A second was behind the stove and it all blended into the back ground so the reset buttons were very difficult to see. After these experiences I would never attempt to predict a location. My suggestion is keep looking, you will find it.

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