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Old 09-30-2014, 11:54 AM   #29
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This is what I would buy!

2008 Tiffin Motorhomes Allegro Bus, Vero Beach FL - 113017402 - RVTrader.com

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!
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Old 09-30-2014, 03:04 PM   #30
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I sell you a 08 43ft Tiffin Bus for 200k
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Old 09-30-2014, 05:32 PM   #31
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I had similar requirements as you when I purchased my first one in 2001. My kids (now 22, 1st year Law School and 25 just graduated Law School) still go with us on occasions.

13 years ago bought a 40' American Eagle and had the j lounge taken out and another couch installed with a bed. Today our 42' tag Eagle has a King bed in the master, a very nice queen sleeper and a small full size bed plus more than enough floor space for 2 airtex twin or 1 queen air mattress.

We use ours extensively for NASCAR (KS race is this weekend), tailgates, vacation, following March Madness (KU) and traveling to see family and friends. The bath and 1/2 is great and I haven't had any issues getting the 42' tag where the 40' non tag would go. In fact the 42' has better wheel cut and I pull a 24' V nose trailer with a full size Escalade ESV. Plenty of room for bicycles, grills, extra TV etc. I wouldn't let the size concern you as you might find it to be a very good plus in your comfort with the kids.

Incidentally, trailer is insulated and 30 amp power with air and heat to use as extra space when needed.

Good luck in your search, with your budget there are many great options for you!
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Old 09-30-2014, 05:43 PM   #32
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Had a 39 ft fleet wood Providence move to the Tiffin Bus 43ft with tag a very nice Motorcoach Thanking about a 45ft Tiffin Bus staying with Tiffin
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:17 PM   #33
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Coming from the place of being a newbie searching for our first rv, which turned into searching for our first Class A. I know it sounds like odd advice to pick the floorplan first, but there is a reason everyone says this. Once you find the one that works best for you it makes it easier to narrow down the choices in manufactures.

We decided to go new and order exactly what we want and we decided to go with Newmar. Prior to deciding on new we contacted Newmar to find out if they would do service and updates to a used unit and they said absolutely! The fit and finish, the attention to detail and the fact that it's backed up by a company that actually talks to the customers sold us hands down.

I know you said you'd be traveling with children so I'd seriously consider units with bunkhouses, especially if it has a half bath. The only thing we noticed is that the bunks tend to be short so if you have tall children, double check the length of those bunk beds.

Best of luck, it's a heck of a process!
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:59 PM   #34
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For that kind of money I can't imagine not having a tag.

Consider a pre-2007 powered diesel pusher. This would include SOME 2007 and potentially 2008 models. 2007 was the year the Diesel Particulate Filter was introduced.

Given the need or desire to have your your parents travel with you would put the bath and half models high on the list. You'll definitely want at least 2 slides and likely would benefit from 3 slides (2 up front).
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Old 09-30-2014, 07:31 PM   #35
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Hi Guys,

Newbie here. Just joined today. Never owned an RV but have borrowed from friends, been with friends multiple times etc. I have the bug and have narrowed my list down to a handful. I will be traveling with my wife and two kids as well as my parents from time to time. Definitely need room for 6 to sleep BUT DEFINITELY DONT WANT A TAG AXLE . Looking at Newmar Ventana & Ventana LE, Tiffin Allegro RED and Phaeton, ENTEGRA, Winnebago/Itasca, and Fleetwood in that order.I have read good and bad about all of them on here. Obviously, I need some real world advise and help here. Please feel free to chime in. Thanks in advance!
Ok I'll chime in.

1) Why no tag axle? You might be missing out on some killer deals on 06 07 08 09 country coach Intrigues and Allures - not to be overlooked.

2) the Ventana LE and The RED are very entry level. I would take a RED over the LE in a heartbeat, but you're gonna miss out on some things you might not know you wanted. For instance, the RED has single pane windows - something the sales guy might overlook to tell you. That being said, I love the 33AA and the 38QRA and QBA - great floorplans!! You're gonna miss out on insulation, bigger A/C units (3 would be best - trust me), less quality in materials.. so forth. But entry level, the RED is on my first hit list.

3) The Ventana is an improvement, and they look fanchy, but I would consider a dutch star - i looked the ventana's over real hard.. but..... Also the Ventana's got HOT in 2014 with some killer design work inside - but likely higher dollar than 200k. Compare photos of a 2013 inside to a 2014 - little stuff, but they nailed it in 2014 - and put a few more nails in it in 2015 - but I would still want that 3rd A/C!!! Which you can't get until you get to a Dutch Star. (well you might could sweet talk an order, but you're looking at 235k+)

4) Entegra has been kicking butt. Good service, smashing design, but some issues in the early models - remember, Jayco only started with these in 2010 - so a little curve there as I read the forums. Overall, happy customers though! And they look great on the road! Although, I seldom see one in the wild.

5) Winnie - ask about the slides carefully - certain years are having some grief, but love the wide entry door! Obviously the TOUR is a highly regarded. The ellipse has that terrible bedroom design with the silly little tv that pulls out from the wall and a bed you must incline to close the slide - with a motor that likes to strip and then guess what, no closey the slidey. (things you don't know until you own it)

6) Fleetwood - man, rock solid company - I have a hard time putting that at the bottom of my list. Once you get into the American Coach line, they get very solid, but don't overlook the Discovery! Fleetwood just purchased Monaco and Holiday Rambler - they are doing something right no doubt. Investigate the Revolution's and the Traditions - 07 and up I would say.

7) What you didn't mention was the Tiffin Allegro Bus - the 43QRP 2009 Tiffin Allegro Bus 43 QRP, Class A - Diesel RV For Sale in Fort Myers, Florida | Palm RV 00682C | RVT.com - 128927 Another great floorplan - it's the way the bedroom and bathroom work that makes it feel spacious in the back. Consequently, the ripped the floorplan directly from the County Coach Intrigue - which is a far nicer machine at any rate.

8) Last but not least, a Monaco Dynasty is a beast! But research the chassis through the years if you consider one - some say great, some say not as great.

Simple works - they might be a little more boring, but all things equal, simple is simple.

I think I might even throw in the Beaver Contessa and the Patriot Thunder to the mix! Stout man.

Good luck!!!

here's another reference post.

You can spend 250k - you want a tag - you like a full wall slide... and..
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Old 09-30-2014, 07:37 PM   #36
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You might also notice, after all of my extensive research and questions - i'm still driving my 05 Rev.

I learned something - and that is, it's about the journey over anything. i got myself all tied up into some strange details that I really discovered didn't matter.

Right now, I'm in Maine eating lobsters 2500 miles from home. We've fished, hiked, walked, enjoyed our dogs - and that's for more important than any wood color, or tv that pops up (which btw is awesome) Also, brad and hall makes tv pop ups from behind couches

I paid more than 50% less for our bus than your current budget, and invested 12k or so in fixer upper - so don't be afraid to save some of your budget - matter of fact, if you buy used, I would hedge a bet that you certainly should save some of your budget for "stuff" - it's inevitable.

Can't wait to hear how your hunt turns out!
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Old 09-30-2014, 09:44 PM   #37
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Ok I'll chime in.

1) Why no tag axle? You might be missing out on some killer deals on 06 07 08 09 country coach Intrigues and Allures - not to be overlooked.

2) the Ventana LE and The RED are very entry level. I would take a RED over the LE in a heartbeat, but you're gonna miss out on some things you might not know you wanted. For instance, the RED has single pane windows - something the sales guy might overlook to tell you. That being said, I love the 33AA and the 38QRA and QBA - great floorplans!! You're gonna miss out on insulation, bigger A/C units (3 would be best - trust me), less quality in materials.. so forth. But entry level, the RED is on my first hit list.

3) The Ventana is an improvement, and they look fanchy, but I would consider a dutch star - i looked the ventana's over real hard.. but..... Also the Ventana's got HOT in 2014 with some killer design work inside - but likely higher dollar than 200k. Compare photos of a 2013 inside to a 2014 - little stuff, but they nailed it in 2014 - and put a few more nails in it in 2015 - but I would still want that 3rd A/C!!! Which you can't get until you get to a Dutch Star. (well you might could sweet talk an order, but you're looking at 235k+)

4) Entegra has been kicking butt. Good service, smashing design, but some issues in the early models - remember, Jayco only started with these in 2010 - so a little curve there as I read the forums. Overall, happy customers though! And they look great on the road! Although, I seldom see one in the wild.

5) Winnie - ask about the slides carefully - certain years are having some grief, but love the wide entry door! Obviously the TOUR is a highly regarded. The ellipse has that terrible bedroom design with the silly little tv that pulls out from the wall and a bed you must incline to close the slide - with a motor that likes to strip and then guess what, no closey the slidey. (things you don't know until you own it)

6) Fleetwood - man, rock solid company - I have a hard time putting that at the bottom of my list. Once you get into the American Coach line, they get very solid, but don't overlook the Discovery! Fleetwood just purchased Monaco and Holiday Rambler - they are doing something right no doubt. Investigate the Revolution's and the Traditions - 07 and up I would say.

7) What you didn't mention was the Tiffin Allegro Bus - the 43QRP 2009 Tiffin Allegro Bus 43 QRP, Class A - Diesel RV For Sale in Fort Myers, Florida | Palm RV 00682C | RVT.com - 128927 Another great floorplan - it's the way the bedroom and bathroom work that makes it feel spacious in the back. Consequently, the ripped the floorplan directly from the County Coach Intrigue - which is a far nicer machine at any rate.

8) Last but not least, a Monaco Dynasty is a beast! But research the chassis through the years if you consider one - some say great, some say not as great.

Simple works - they might be a little more boring, but all things equal, simple is simple.

I think I might even throw in the Beaver Contessa and the Patriot Thunder to the mix! Stout man.

Good luck!!!

here's another reference post.

You can spend 250k - you want a tag - you like a full wall slide... and..
Thanks for the input. My eyes have been opened. I'm now taking a serious look at a TAG. Tiffin was on my hit list until I joined these forums. Its like reading about a THOR. Leaks, Rotten wood, Roof issues, hanging out in Red Bay...thoughts?
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:22 AM   #38
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That's what happened with us too, after we started reading about the Tiffin problems we started looking elsewhere, so I can sympathize with you on that. For this amount of money, you don't want something new or used that is going to cost you more money in repairs or is going to spend a lot of time in the shop, well at least we didn't

Whatever you do make sure you get a quality independent inspector and apparently he needs to be one with a moisture meter according to a thread on here, to go over any coach you decide to buy. It might cost you several hundred dollars but it could save you several thousand!

Find a local dealer or if you area has a small dealer RV show and go see all the used units they have. Go in as many as you can, open and close doors, hang out like you would with the family, really look at all the details of the wood they used the paneling, the flooring. You'll know the lower quality from the higher.

Oh and another reason we opted for new, so many of the used coaches were too flashy for us, the mirrored ceilings, the white tiles, the white furniture, the mirrored back splashes just too over the top. Plus we saw too much time and work to get them to where we'd want them to be. So really try to picture yourself vacationing in the ones you go in.
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:37 AM   #39
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Thanks for the input. My eyes have been opened. I'm now taking a serious look at a TAG. Tiffin was on my hit list until I joined these forums. Its like reading about a THOR. Leaks, Rotten wood, Roof issues, hanging out in Red Bay...thoughts?
Oh I dunno man - pretty much anything you buy has the potential for issues.

Here's the debate.

On one side - some buy brand new and discover unknown problems that may have never existed before - could be small, could be BIG. But a lot of people who buy brand new end up with 6 to 12 months of shakedown / back to the shop to fix that trips. Absolutely expect at least some. If I were buying brand new, I would plan on 6 months in the beginning to get everything tweaked.

On the other side, if you buy used - maybe a few bits aren't as pretty as they are brand new, but the hope is the previous owner has already worked out the major bugs - but the downside is the potential for problems that exist specifically because the previous owner DID NOT maintain certain aspects of the unit.

A tough crag - a catch 22 - between a rock and a hard place

Here's another thought - what happens if you find one that is only 1 year old? Or only 2 years old used? I always lean on the side that the potential exists that the unit was a lemon, and the owner ditched it back to a dealer. And that sales guy is not going to tell you anything about it.

2008 the economy took a huge dump if you recall - and motorhome manufacturers were hit pretty hard - some went right out of business, some rallied back but it took some years. Plus the fact that there are now more manufacturers in the category, with some trying to take the entry level market - the last bunch of years of seen "some" squirrley stuff.

I think it for this reason why so many speak of the 07 and back years - less corners were cut back then, and the idea of entry level DP's didn't really exist. Entry level was to buy a gasser or a travel trailer.

With all that said - no matter what, you're more than likely going to invest money after the sale - so plan for it. If you don't use your after sale budget, great, you have money saved. But the opposite could really make a bad taste in your mouth.

With my unit, everything looked on the up and up - but then we discovered a leak in the roof at the drivers side window. Now all that wood back there is soft and squishy. It's known around here as the infamous squishy wall. I meet people from here in person all the time and they ask "Did you ever fix that squishy wall?" Nope. I stopped the leak, left the wood - it's behind wall paper anyway, i'll get to it one day.

Had to replace the sensor switches in the jacks, no big deal. Had to replace the rear air bags, no big deal. Replaced the fridge, no big deal. Put in new headlights and mirrors, no big deal. The flooring was replaced by the dealer with fake wood. Air compressor valves leaked, replaced. And usually every trip, something little goes wrong.

All in all, I am really glad I didn't max my budget. I could have spent up to 250, but spent 90 + fixer money instead, and overall, it's turned out fine.

I think it boils down to expectations. Early in the game you tend to expect that everything will be perfectly perfect, and that just ain't so - so if you expect some fixer time, some shake down time, a trip to the chassis shop, a trip to the tire store, and a trip to a house fixer - you won't be let down.

If you buy used, plan right out of the gate the following.

Trip to chassis shop - check brakes, e brake, change the engine oil, oil filter, air filter, fuel filter, flash engine to newest software + transmission. Check airbags, check air dryer and filter - change filter is needed.

Trip to tire store - have the tires looked over CAREFULLY, check dates on tires. Throw it on the alignment machine. If you need to buy new tires, plan on 5k to 7k depending on the tires. I lucked out and the dealer put new tires on for me at their cost. The ides is tires should never be operated if they are 7 or more years old. Some say 4. But other tire issues can exist, which is why you want a professional truck shop to check them inside and out. A blowout with a truck tire is a MASSIVE ordeal. When one of those tires shreds, it usually takes a portion of the bus with it - not to mention the potential for loss of control - another reason I don't drive 75mph.

Trip to house RV repair. Check the batteries, 12 volt system, grey and black tank valves, fridge, smoke alarms (i replaced all of mine right away regardless), check the health of the inverter, clean the a/c coils, check furnace and water heaters gas tubes - make sure they fire. Check the entire roof, seals and seams where there are screws. Check wipers and motor. Have slides and motors and motor brakes checked over. Install tire pressure monitoring system if not already on board.

All of that might cost you a couple grand, probably less.

ANYTHING built 2011 and after (some 2010's) is going to require that you put DEF in it. DEF is a silly liquid you put in the DEF tank for emissions. The tank should last much longer than your fuel tank - a thousand miles?? At any rate, another hassle if you ask me... and up until 2015, chassis makers had been installed the def tank on the passenger side... well guess what - the truck stops installed the def pump on the drivers side Chassis makers have caught on to this snafoo, and are now moving junk around to squeeze it on the pump side - but did they rush it?? Who knows. In other words, did they make some booboo in relocating something else to put the def tank there. No one will know for a while. I'm just glad I don't have to mess with it (but I'm lazy)

As to floorplans, you are going to find an array, but you will realize there are 4 or 5 main layouts.

1) Opposing couches, straight shot - The couches are up front, face each other, the tv is in the overhead. The kitchen and dinette are directly behind, and a straight through the middle hallway goes to shower, bath then bedroom. Very common. The dinette may be a booth or a computer desk. There are various takes on this floorplan, some lose a couch and have a desk and recliner opposing, but same plan. SOME of these floorplans have the fridge IN the slide, some do not. Check that carefully, cause with the fridge in the moving slide, it seems so much larger inside when open. Especially if the bus has a table and chairs. Look closely, if the fridge doesn't move out with the slide, the chair at the back is squeezed between the stationary fridge and the table - hope you're not fat.

2) Hall to the right - some floorplans have the kitchen up front, couches behind with TV on back wall, hallway on the right leads past bathroom to bedroom, shower and toilet usually in same room. Think Holiday Rambler Scepter 09 or Fleetwood Discovery. Some love em.

3) Full wall slide. Dude, lovely inside. American Coach 42F, Ventana, Holiday Rambler 38PFT or Endevr, tour and some others - couch, dinette and fridge and bedroom, all in slide. These will usually have a bath behind the bedroom and a small toilet room midship. Great floorplan! Honestly. Hard to find with a king size bed, most seem to have queens (new ventana has king Consequently, Tiffin REFUSES to use a full wall slide citing the fact it could goof up - i don't buy it. I think tiffin TRIED to use that as an excuse to keep things the same - may or may not have been a good move for them, cause the full wall slides seem to work pretty good.

4) Bath in bed - 08 09 43QRP - if you have dogs and dog beds, this rear end design leaves a lot of room for movement around the bed, great place for dogs to sleep. I love it. country coach intrigue too.

all things being equal, simple is simple. Heat, Cooling, Water, A place to make food, eat, sit, watch tv, drives nice, tows my car, get's me places I've always wanted to go. Simple.

If you are only going to use it occasionally, I would not spend a lot of money on it. I would get what works, and enjoy my time in it.

A lot will depend on how you plan to use it and how often. It's a good idea to go walk in a bunch of them with no other intention than observation. If you want some stark advice on how to deal with an rv sales person, PM me.

This here, is a REAL BEAUTY! And buying it directly from country coach, I the chance of major issues goes way down, but this is a shining example of a great used coach. Big engine, lovely interior, lots of storage, bed bath, a real beaut! I've been eye balling it hard myself but....

http://www.countrycoach.com/2014/02/...igue-40-12014/
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:38 AM   #40
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http://www.countrycoach.com/2014/02/...igue-40-12014/
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:40 AM   #41
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For comparison, a nice RED 2010 Tiffin Allegro RED 38QBA Bunkhouse, Class A - Diesel RV For Sale By Owner in Bear, Delaware | RVT.com - 152599
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:44 AM   #42
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More Here's a recent discovery
2012 Fleetwood Discovery, Class A - Diesel RV For Sale in Lilburn, Georgia | National Indoor RV Centers 701 | RVT.com - 136647

BTW, I like this dealer. I don't know why.

Here's a nice camelot, I see a lot of these in the wild.
2007 Monaco Camelot, Class A - Diesel RV For Sale in Everett, Washington | Maple Grove RV | RVT.com - 120195

Here's a Revolution with a full wall slide
2007 Fleetwood Evolution r le 40v, Class A - Diesel RV For Sale By Owner in Winnetka, California | RVT.com - 138231

here's a nice 4 slide, straight shot american tradition
2008 American Coach American Tradition, Class A - Diesel RV For Sale in Wildwood, Florida | Alliance Coach PURC6733 | RVT.com - 123829
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