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Old 08-26-2013, 08:18 PM   #15
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I know this entry asked "to be legal" but there are certain safe guards written into our constitution protecting us from unlawful search and seizure, namely the 4th amendment so what is the reason for this invasion into your underwear drawer to find a weapon that is there legally?

I did get an e-mail today saying a weapons confiscation may start via the United Nations although I have not checked it's veracity.

Don G
Before quoting the 4th amendment, if you had done your research, you would know that it has limitations. Several of these limitations are specific to vehicles. To give you head start: Search Warrants: What They Are and When They're Necessary | Nolo.com. From that site:

Quote:
Searches of Cars and Their Occupants

Cars may be searched without a warrant whenever the car has been validly stopped and the police have probable cause to believe the car contains contraband or evidence. If the police have probable cause to search the car, all compartments and packages that may contain the evidence or contraband being searched for are fair game.

While a police officer cannot search a car simply because the car was stopped for a traffic infraction, the police can order the driver and any passengers out of the car for safety considerations, even though there is no suspicion of criminal wrongdoing other than the traffic infraction. The police also can "frisk" the occupants for weapons if the officers have a "reasonable suspicion" that the occupants are involved in criminal activity and are reasonably concerned for their safety.
Obviously you can make your own choice. However, if you are pulled over by an LEO and he/she asks, "Do you have any weapons in that vehicle?", do you think you can lie with a straight face? Would you give the LEO probable cause? Will he think you are carrying and his life is in danger? And what happens if the LEO finds weapons that are illegal under that state's laws?

If you believe in states rights, then you have to accept the fact that states have the right to determine what is and is not legal within their borders. OTOH, if you don't believe in that, then you believe that the Federal government has the right to control state law.

Regardless of what you believe, those state laws are currently constitutional. Even though the current US Supreme Court is quite conservative, in several recent cases (incl New York and Oregon) the Court has upheld the right of states to have those laws.

Finally, I strongly suggest that you remove the last paragraph because 1) it's completely irrational, 2) it reflects very poorly on you, and 3) and the obvious intent of it is to spread fear and conspiracy rumors.

Dan.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimesy View Post
I know this entry asked "to be legal" but there are certain safe guards written into our constitution protecting us from unlawful search and seizure, namely the 4th amendment so what is the reason for this invasion into your underwear drawer to find a weapon that is there legally?

I did get an e-mail today saying a weapons confiscation may start via the United Nations although I have not checked it's veracity.

Don G
Without going too far into it: Confiscation has already happened in CA and NY.
Several states ignore the "safe travel" laws too.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:36 PM   #17
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Partially disassemble it. Then you don't have a gun. You have gun parts.
That's not true. Ask any FFL who sells "parts". Or try to take these "parts" on a commercial airline...
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:38 PM   #18
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Before quoting the 4th amendment, if you had done your research, you would know that it has limitations.
One problem is that he's got a CC license. Depending on how well the computer system looks up out-of-state licenses, his license may show up in a traffic stop. I dunno how they roll in NJ, but in Texas, they assume you're armed as soon as that flag shows up. It's certainly one more nudge toward enough cause to look for it.

Just having (anywhere) an "unregistered" handgun can get you arrested in NJ. It doesn't matter where that handgun is kept. So if FL doesn't require registration, be aware... All of the guns bought in my state pretty much fall in the unregistered category.

Beyond those limitations, there is what is legal and there is reality. Reality is that some officers may interpret the 4th amendment differently than you. The 4th amendment doesn't stop them from searching. It prosecuting attorneys from prosecuting successfully... After you've taken the ride, your vehicle is impounded, and you're out a ton of money in legal fees.


I recently did a cross country trip. Like you, I have a license to carry a firearm. When I got to a restrictive state (Illinois) the gun goes outside the RV: Disassembled, unloaded, in a locked safe. If the state wants me to do more than that, I'm in trouble...
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:45 PM   #19
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Florida CC license is a separate license, nothing on the drivers license referring to it.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:49 PM   #20
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One problem is that he's got a CC license. Depending on how well the computer system looks up out-of-state licenses, his license may show up in a traffic stop. I dunno how they roll in NJ, but in Texas, they assume you're armed as soon as that flag shows up. It's certainly one more nudge toward enough cause to look for it.

Beyond those limitations, there is what is legal and there is reality. Reality is that some officers may interpret the 4th amendment differently than you. The 4th amendment doesn't stop them from searching. It stops them from prosecuting successfully... After you've taken the ride, your vehicle is impounded, and you're out a ton of money in legal fees.

It's legal to walk around with a long gun in Texas, but it'll often get you arrested anyway.
Good points. I'm considering a Glock 17 or 34 Gen4 with a red dot site for targets. The 34 would be the better target pistol with the 17 a bit better for protection.

Since I don't want to carry, I'm not as worried as Don should be. OTOH, I was shocked at how few states have reciprocity with Washington State.

Dan.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:52 PM   #21
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Oh this is a slippery slope.....

I am attorney...(Don't think ill of me....) but I am a gun advocate. I believe that it is our constitutional right to bear arms, and if we travel in our homes, we should be able to carry our guns with us. That being said, I do not carry when we are on the road. I know the pitfalls of trying to argue with local law enforcement and I do not want to disrupt our trips by arguing with regional officers. We carry bug spray and a baseball bat, but I have friends that carry weapons in very unusual places in their RV's. I do not think that officers would ever find them.....Think of food containers...?????? But that is their choice, my choice is to not tempt fate.... It is truly a shame that we cannot chose to carry protection of our choice with us. The bad guys carry what they want....!!!!

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Old 08-26-2013, 08:54 PM   #22
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Florida CC license is a separate license, nothing on the drivers license referring to it.
It's a separate license here in Texas also. It shows up as a flag when they pull your vehicle registration during an in-state traffic stop. It's tied to your license in many law enforcement computers.

Note: I don't know how well it works on out-of-state license checks. It may not show anything at all.
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Old 08-26-2013, 08:55 PM   #23
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Since I don't want to carry, I'm not as worried as Don should be. OTOH, I was shocked at how few states have reciprocity with Washington State.
Dan.
I noticed that NJ can grant carry licenses to out of state guests. I'd find a state that allows a non-resident license with good reciprocity if I was serious about it.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:09 PM   #24
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OTOH, I was shocked at how few states have reciprocity with Washington State.
25 states isn't a "few", it's half of them, plus WA makes 26.

I also have OR and it's 20 for it.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:10 PM   #25
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It's a separate license here in Texas also. It shows up as a flag when they pull your vehicle registration during an in-state traffic stop. It's tied to your license in many law enforcement computers.

Note: I don't know how well it works on out-of-state license checks. It may not show anything at all.
Doubtful that it shows when out of state as the data isn't shared.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:19 PM   #26
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Doubtful that it shows when out of state as the data isn't shared.
How do you know it's not shared? DL status, warrant status, etc - lots of that stuff gets shared.. I wouldn't worry about it if it doesn't show up on in-state traffic stops. In TX, the information is "private" but shows to law enforcement.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:41 PM   #27
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Partially disassemble it. Then you don't have a gun. You have gun parts.
X2 on this /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\

If its a semi auto, just remove the slide and barrel assembley(in a safe manner) .
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:57 PM   #28
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I was talking with a friend today who is also a police officer. I was considering the purchase of a handgun, so I asked his advice on a make and model. He offered advice, but then asked me why I was considering this purchase. When I told him of the life on the road in the motor home scenario, he had an excellent suggestion.

Instead of a handgun, I'm going to purchase a Taser. They are not licensed and you can buy them at Walmart. They will knock a man down and keep him down, without danger of killing him. No CC permit required, for almost the same level of protection.
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